Tomo Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Well I'm on my way to getting the hang of the Jab! I've gotten used to the flap's and bigger circuits and the poorer visibility (you get spoilt in the Drifter!!) but I still haven't mastered sitting on the side of the aircraft! so what ends up happening is I'm landing sideways! because in times of pressure I'm using the prop centre to line up with.... which is not ideal at all! Just got to remember to look straight ahead over the dash, not over the prop!!! Other than that, it's great fun.....:thumb_up:
BigPete Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 G'Day Tomo, Most of us had a black strip (electricians tape) put on the cowl to keep it straight. regards
Tomo Posted June 23, 2009 Author Posted June 23, 2009 Now that's a good Idea... Should do that next time!:thumb_up: Thanks
poteroo Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Or a texta mark on the lower part of your windscreen which should align down the left side of the engine cowl. Does help to get your instructor to get out, and locate the nosewheel precisely on a taxiway, or other, centreline, before you sight up into the distance. Do it with the engine stopped, as instructors are not propellor proof!
poteroo Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Correction: Actually, you should be sitting directly over the 'centreline' of the strip or taxiway, and it should be seen 'above' your windscreen or cowling marks - which mean the nosewheel will be slightly to the right of that line. happy days,
motzartmerv Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Now ya cooking Tommo.:thumb_up:. welcome to the fold buddy.. don't rush it, give yaself time to get infront of the plane and you'll be sweat..:thumb_up: Happy Days
facthunter Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 tape and other marks? Really guys. How would you do this to a club/school aircraft. When you sit on the middle of the runway when you are lining up for take-off, is how it should look during the landing. (allowing for a bit of pitch attitude change). IF you are finding that you are consistently landing to one side or the other, consciously try to land a little bit over to correct it. You don't sit in the middle of your car, (unless you own a Messerschmit). Nev
Guest brentc Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I've seen a number of school aircraft with some tape attached to the top of the cowls for this purpose.
facthunter Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Well? Doesn't make it right Brentc. In every side by side aeroplane the PF flies from the left seat. There are some tandem seats but the change, (displacement laterally from centre) would only be about 14 ". So mostly it is a common situation that should be coped easily with., and I reckon it could be corrected with about 4 circuits and the right approach to the problem. How would they go in a C-130, for instance? OK there are some newer co-pilots who will tend to land on their side of the runway initially, and they are not too aware of it till it is pointed out, then it is corrected. I have never seen or had it suggested that lines be dawn on noses, windows etc. My point is that I don't think it is good training technique. Learn to judge it without. Nev
winsor68 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I thought the original poster was referring to landing the aircraft in yawed configuration...i.e. if you were to draw a line from the pilots eyes to the spinner in this case the pilot is landing the aircraft while it is aligned with this line i.e. a little off center.
motzartmerv Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Yes, that is the issue with the Jab. Don't think the centerline problem is the thing.. The tapper (taper??...spelling) on the cowling gives an optical illusion that your pointing straight when ur actually not.. The problem is identical (although reversed) when trainee instructor's (myself included) swap to the right seat.. I have seen schools put tape on the cowling, this would certainly be my prefered method over marking the windscreen.. But best thing would be to learn to judge it without either. The last thing you need is a student focusing his attention on the cowling or the windscreen during the flare. Its a tough enuff job to get them to stop looking at the ground infront of them and focus on the far end.. cheers
flie43 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Great post guys. I have never had the problem in the years flying C182's but now I have a Jab I have been doing just that and slowly getting the sight line right. I would touch down and head to the left. But I reckon I have them nailed now. Doing night circuits last week I found I was again heading to the left after touch down. Ok, I will go and do more practice, what a great excuse. Terry
Tomo Posted June 24, 2009 Author Posted June 24, 2009 I thought the original poster was referring to landing the aircraft in yawed configuration...i.e. if you were to draw a line from the pilots eyes to the spinner in this case the pilot is landing the aircraft while it is aligned with this line i.e. a little off center. Correct Winsor, It's not so much as landing on the wrong side of the white line (although I was doing that to!) But that's not a huge drama compared to landing sideways and then your in the position to going off the runway altogether!! I see Nev's point in trying to learn without a marker... but I think I may save a bit of anxiety (to all concerned!) by learning it this way for a bit, then pull it off and see how I go after that... Thanks to all:thumb_up:
Whack777 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Interesting thread... I've just started flying from the right hand seat to get an instructor rating and know exactly what Tomo is talking about. Felt like I was starting to learn to fly again for a couple of circuits and then it started to fall into place. Before we started my instructer stood directly in front of the plane about 25m away and told me to pick a point on the cowling where he was (didn't use tape)... Just made me think about what I do in the right hand seat without even thinking about it... and now it's reversed.... all good stuff. Tomo... flying a Drifter and a Jab... what a perfect combination... I've been planning on getting an endrosement on a Drifter... would they be a good aircraft to get a tailwheel endorsement with? Regards
Guest Gomer Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Tomo, I know what you mean by "...in times of pressure I'm {insert wrong action here}"! About second lesson, my instructor parked the plane in the middle of the strip and said "That's what it's supposed to look like! Look at the point on the cowling that is in line with the end of the strip and remember it." I've done just about everything else wrong since then, but knowing whether it's square to the runway or not has never been a problem. You'll get it licked in no time. :)
Guest Crezzi Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I've been planning on getting an endrosement on a Drifter... would they be a good aircraft to get a tailwheel endorsement with? They are a great plane but your endorsement won't really equip you with the skills to fly any other type of tail dragger IMO Cheers John
Relfy Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Top work Tomo, are you flying the 120 over there? Relfy
Tomo Posted June 24, 2009 Author Posted June 24, 2009 I've been planning on getting an endrosement on a Drifter... would they be a good aircraft to get a tailwheel endorsement with? Yeah, Crezzi's probably right... it may not get you the experience needed for a larger drager. Though I couldn't recommend getting the endorsement enough, It's just such a fun acft to fly around in!:thumb_up: After doing a lesson in the Jab, I go and jump in the Drifter and do a few circuits just to have some more fun!!:big_grin: Top work Tomo, are you flying the 120 over there? Yep, thats correct... You probably can hear us on the radio some times... Well I know I can hear Kingaroy Traffic Blablabla..............! And Gomer: Yes, In times of pressure.... all good intentions go elsewhere!!
BecM Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Tomo, Glad to sread you're enjoying the Jab. (The 120 is cute) Damn wonderful weather (rain lots of it with high winds) has kept me grounded but I am booked in for the flight test on Sunday (weather permitting) I didn't use the tap method myself, just once aware of the problem, tried to correct it. Stay safe Bec
Tomo Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 I didn't use the tap method myself, just once aware of the problem, tried to correct it. Yeah, I prolly should give myself a bit more of a chance! I've only done about a half hour of circuits in it!!!! It's been a great discussion though, thanks a lot guys:thumb_up:
bushpilot Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Correction:Actually, you should be sitting directly over the 'centreline' of the strip or taxiway, and it should be seen 'above' your windscreen or cowling marks - which mean the nosewheel will be slightly to the right of that line. happy days, Is there general consensus on this point.. i.e. PIC should be right on the centreline irrespective of what side he/she is sitting on?
poteroo Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 Chris, If there were 2 pilots taking each landing turn about, then it depends on which side is flying as PIC. The PIC places the aircraft so that he/she is over the centreline, and doesn't try to 2nd guess getting the nosewheel onto the centreline. So, the nosewheel will be R or L of the centreline on each landing. But, when an instructor is demonstrating, it's usual to land so that the student,(in the LHS), is going to be right over the centreline. This takes a bit more practice. happy days,
Tomo Posted June 27, 2009 Author Posted June 27, 2009 I think it's just clean flying if you can land on the white line. When you land on dirt tracks in the drifter with crops or cultivation either side and the track is only the width of a vehicle, you tend to like staying in the middle, so to speak!! I'm getting better at doing it now I think...:ah_oh: Mind you, all my landings in the Jab so far have been way on the left side of the line! due to flying side ways on touch down... but I'm gonna knock that out of myself next time!
GraemeK Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 What's this with the bitumen and the white line? Luxury I tell you! I'm happy if I don't hit the markers on either side of the grass strip ! But yep - I had (sometimes still have) the problem of looking over the prop instead of straight ahead, when you can't figure why the instructor is still yelling "right rudder" when you reckon it's pointed straight ahead.
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