Jump starting on cold morning

[Phil Goyne]

Had a good trip to the Bundaberg Airshow over the weekend. But trying to get away early to fly home yesterday, some of our Jabs had trouble starting due to the cold morning. Had to call in a truck to jump start the planes. In future I will carry a jump starting kit for winter flying. Can anyone suggest a very small light battery or equivalent that could be carried to assist ?

 

 

[pudestcon]

G'day Phil,

 

We've been having similar problems of an early morning in the Avon Valley at Northam requiring jump starting from either my Ford Territory vehicle or a jump starter pack which turns the Rotax over no worries. I haven't got an answer to your specific question however regarding a light weight booster pack - does such a thing exist? I think you would have to compromise on weight vs cranking amps but even light weight batteries wouild be fairly heavy I suspect.

 

I hope someone has the solution for you and I would be very interested as well.

 

Pud

 

 

[Tomo]

In my thinking, If you carry a booster pack (even a light one) it would defeat its purpose.... if you can afford a bit extra weight, why not just get a bigger cold cranking amps battery? rather than carrying two....

 

Just a thought!

 

 

[pudestcon]

From what I've heard Tomo the extra cold cranking battery does not cost that much more either. Could be 'safety in numbers' though as a case for carrying another battery. Just a thought.

 

Pud

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I still maintain the difference is in the starter solenoid. Mine fired first go this morning. When cold, I always crank about 5 seconds with ignition off, then start it straight up. Even works in Goulburn - although Bundy wasn't much warmer this morning. I thought it was supposed to be warm up there. Beautiful one day, brass monkeys the next.

 

When I was having trouble Pud, I was carrying a jump pack around. I'll find an example.

 

Something like this:

 

or this:

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I've got a cheap $40 Dick Smith jump starter. Works a treat, as long as it's charged when you try and use it!

 

 

[Phil Goyne]

Thanks for the response people. I'll check out the ideas.

 

 

[pudestcon]

How do you mean "the difference is in the starter solonoid" Slarti? Also, what is the point of swinging the prop for 5 seconds with the ignition off? Just asking here as I'm not sure on the benefits. I'm hopeless at things mechanical or electrical as well:laugh:

 

Pud

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I wrote somewhere else about my starting troubles and tracking them down.

 

I had a dud Odyssey battery, but the main issue was the starter solenoid. I had been forced to use the above jump pack for every start, even after changing the battery. While diagnosing, the multimeter showed an issue with the solenoid. Then to prove it, the earth return from the solenoid melted. I put an identical solenoid in after finding it at Supacheap and it would kind of start again. Then I put an expensive German solenoid in, and it hasn't failed to start since - even in cold weather.

 

I crank it over on the starter to distribute some oil before it fires up.

 

Some people do it by hand, but I now have plenty of cranks available, so I use them.

 

 

[BigPete]

Don't forget,

 

we also use the hand pull through (first start of the day) to check for unusual mechanical noises and compression on each cylinder. :thumb_up:

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Good point Pete. I don't do that every time, but you're right. I should.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Interesting stuff thanks Slarti. I turn the Rotax over by swinging the prop by hand. This covers off on a few things including checking compression, distributing oil, checking the prop blades and checking that all is secure and 'in safety'.

 

Cheers,

 

Pud

 

 

[jetjr]

Make sure youve done the Service Bulletin on the starter cable relocation - it really does help

 

JR

 

 

[ianboag]

This one is a bit of a perennial.

 

Start-Ya-Bastard ether from Super Cheap has a good track record.

 

I added an external jumpstart lug under the floor (just a bit of SC starter cable) so I can jumpstart (or recharge the battery) without removing the cowl.

 

In the end I just put a second battery on the firewall. Seems to have 100% sorted it.

 

IB

 

 

[jetjr]

Aerostart, Start Ya bastard or any kind of ether can be very tough on the engine, use sparingly

 

If overused engine starts just like being on part open throttle - hard and too fast without oil pressure

 

If way to much is used I think it can explode once it fires?

 

JR

 

 

[Tomo]

Aerostart, Start Ya bastard or any kind of ether can be very tough on the engine, use sparinglyIf overused engine starts just like being on part open throttle - hard and too fast without oil pressure

If way to much is used I think it can explode once it fires?

 

JR

Correct... If you can possibly help it, try to use very little, Definitely not a good thing on a newish engine.

 

 

[kevinfrost]

I always do my compression check with full choke and give it another four quick turns to get fuel through. I think this gives the motor the best shot of starting rather than wasting the battery power on sucking through fuel instead of getting enough revs to power up the ignition. Works for me.

 

 

[Ross]

The Jab service bulletin shifting of the cable should help.

 

An additional point not mentioned in the SB was that at the level one course at Temora this year one of the instructor guys said that he has rejuvinated a number of "stuffed" Jabiru starter motors by simply removing the O rings in the outer casing of the starter motor.

 

Apparently the O rings were causing a reduction in the available volts and amps available to power the starter.

 

The other little gem that my Kit Fox flying brother has used on hapless Jabs with good effect was to boil up a Jug of hot water and pour it over the cylinders.

 

Other people have used hair dryers.

 

Batteries also have a bit more life when not stone cold but would take a fair bit of time to warm them a few degrees because of their large mass.

 

People in North America have been known to have an electric blanket on the floor of their garage under the engine bay of their cars to give them a non freezing start in winter.

 

 

[Harthy]

Cold starting

 

Keep any kind of aero start away from good engines or your engine will not be good for much longer. It can have a habit of melting pistons from severe detonation.

 

Using it in aircraft engines is not advisable.

 

Yes it does start engines. Mainly designed for starting very cold and low compression diesel engines(worn out ones).

 

Look at the complete starting circuit. A good properly sized battery for the job, good heavy leads with soldered conections. Very clean and secure connections and terminals(Can't stress that enough), Starter moter and solenoid of good quality and service. From there if your engine is tuned correctly it will start hot or cold.

 

Harthy

 

 

[Tomo]

I just thought I'd add, if your battery is sitting directly on to a steel plate, or mounting box that has got a metal bottom, you should put a piece of rubber or something to insulate it... It cools the bottom of the battery down a lot, which in time isn't good for the battery.

 

 

[jcruffle]

For what it's worth, I had the same problem when my Jab was pretty new. Changed batteries, replaced the solenoid, moved the earth lead etc. It ended up being the starter motor itself; the last place I looked with a new engine.

 

John

 

 

[Vev]

I was with a mate a few weeks ago and he was pulling through the prop of the aircraft we were about to do some ribbon cutting in prep for a club comp…. A LAME came up and reminded us that if the magneto earths had failed (despite being turned off) for any reason we could be at risk of hand starting the engine with both of us in front of the prop. Ok nothing to do with a poor starting, but a safety reminder when pull over by the prop to make sure you do it safely.

 

 

• Check and make sure the mags are off
   
   
  
• Apply the brakes
   
   
  
• Stand to the side
   
   
  
• Keep a good clearance between you and the prop
   
   
  

 

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[jetjr]

Highly unlikely on a Jabiru, they require high rpm to fire the magnetos, part of the reason they can be a bit hard to start cold. Needs to get max rpm from starter to fire plugs.

 

Im led to believe its nearly impossible to hand start a Jab engine on purpose or not

 

Other makes the LAME is very correct

 

JR

 

 

[Tomo]

I like to treat all prop's like it's gonna get you........

 

Even though a Jab won't fire under 300rpm, it doesn't hurt being cautious, the day will come when you be pulling through a prop, all confident (because you only ever flew Jab engines, and weren't thinking!) thats when it'll bite!;)

 

"Expect the unexpected" and you'll live to tell about it!

 

 

[quentas]

I`ve had the prop `bite` me with compression kickback when not paying enough attention to the `pull through`. hurts the fingers. My cessna is much more leisurely but could be unforgiving as it can start easily by hand (When set up to do so)