We need more regulations

[farri]

We need more regulations like a hole in the head.I am not sure that it is a good idea to promote more and more requirements getting closer and closer to the complexity and cost of GA.

 

IMHO

qwerty, the reason that I and so many others worked so hard in the begining,was to get away from the requirements and costs of GA and the privilages that we achieved should be maintained regardless of any additional regulations.

 

I think it is inevitable that we will get closer to the complexity and cost of GA because we are getting more and more RAA members wanting the privilages of GA and therefore it can be expected that CASA will demand the same standards and the RAA will have to comply in order to satisify these members and CASA.

 

In addition,The Civil Aviation Regulations and Civil Aviation Orders,(CAR`s & CAO`s) are controled by CASA and are in place already,we as RAA members must operate under these regulations,the orders in our operations manual are exemptions to these regulations.

 

I`m not sure that everyone realises this.

 

It`s the exemptions to these orders that have been gained over the years that we must maintain and try to gain more not loose the freedoms we now have.

 

Frank.

 

PS,By the way, I agree with your sentiments.

 

 

[Guest Orion]

Post moderated - Ian

 

 

[turboplanner]

Kent, in some cases there has been evidence of reckless disregard for duty of care from some posters on this site, which could lead to fatal accidents, and from some posts I've read it's clear the person is talking about Flight Sim rather than reality, or flies by the little wriggly line, battery powered, single power sourced etc.

 

Grammatically you may be right, but if Ozzie shocks just one person into doing their planning correctly it's a plus.

 

 

[ahlocks]

.....it's clear the person is talking about Flight Sim rather than reality...

If the GPS goes 'Pfft', will Mt Ulandra, The Rock, Hume Highway and the 'bidgee disappear too? :raise_eyebrow: ....and will I need a new graphics card for the beercan?? :cool_shades:

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, it takes about four second for them to grey out, so you have to be quick.

 

As we know, they became invisible to al least one pilot.

 

You can fit a replacement graphics card from the Navman 322/C, usually $25 on Ebay.

 

 

[farri]

Kent, in some cases there has been evidence of reckless disregard for duty of care from some posters on this site, which could lead to fatal accidents.

Turbo,

 

Can you please tell me and otheres,what you consider to be the correct regard for duty of care and where duty of care lies on a public forum where there are moderators to screen the content that is presented.

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Sorry, bad English. It should read:

 

....reckless disregard for duty of care in activities reported by posters....

 

 

[farri]

Thank you,Better.

 

Frank.

 

 

[skybum]

John Gorton wrote a message that was left on the moon by the crew of Apollo 11 it read...

 

Australians are pleased and proud to have played a part in helping to make it possible for the first man from earth to land on the moon. This is a dramatic fulfillment of man’s urge to go always a little further; to explore and know the formerly unknown; to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. May the high courage and the technical genius which made this achievement possible be so used in the future that mankind will live in a universe in which peace, self expression, and the chance of a dangerous adventure are available to all.

 

John Gorton

 

Prime Minister

 

Somewhere we have lost something when we all became a part of a nanny state of liability

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

hey Skybum that's cool, i did not know that the then PM had said that.

 

shame that in the 21st century that the 'girly skirt' attitude is so prevelent by those with a bully boy i rule you attitude

 

it used to be 'pay your money and take your chances' but i suppose now in this world of instant credit they want you to survive long enogh to pay it off.

 

ozzie

 

 

[GraemeK]

Yep different times - but then Gorton was a Spitfire and Hurricane pilot in WWII, so you'd expect he'd have something sensible to say!

 

 

[Guest DavidW01]

I couldn't agree more ozzie. The wrap everyone in cotton wool, you cant do that you might scratch yourself attitude of our so called leaders is slowly turning us into a nation of latte sipping prius driving skirts instead of the adventure seeking bronzed aussies we once were

 

OH&S, polluting the gene pool for 50 years :big_grin:

 

Dave

 

 

[turboplanner]

This reminds me of the old Colonels' Mess when they all start talking about the good old days.

 

You've got it back to front. We USED to be the Nanny State.

 

Contrary to what you often read on this site there was an active Ultralight movement in the 20's and 30's, the infamous Flying Flea being one of the big volume products, and there were Australian gyrocopters lurking around the back blocks in the fifties, but all of this was banned due to the high rate of accidents.

 

The truth is that in Gorton's day, none of us would have been flying the recreational aircraft we know today.

 

Nor has it been the Governments (and remember, Australia is a collection of six sovereign countries) bringing in more and more rules - they have been the victim of changing times as much as we have.

 

It was the families of the victims.

 

It was the cost of caring for a person with head injuries who looks normal, but can't speak properly, whose skin turns scaly, who still has his determination inside him and grabs the car every now and again and takes off, or whose inhibitions have been lowered to the point where he exposes himself and so on.

 

So the families began sueing, and today will come after you for up to $7 million for a permanently disabling injury, and about $2 million per death, using negligence laws.

 

And if you knew that what you were doing could result in injury or death, they'll probably encourage a criminal conviction for manslaughter etc. first.

 

The most important thing to understand about negligence law is that even though you didn't intend to hurt the person, you had a duty of care to ensure that the person couldn't be hurt.

 

So if you were starting to service a saw and took the guard off, then got a phone call, but didn't neutralise the saw first you were gone.

 

In Gorton's day an Inspector would come out to check the lifting gear in your workshop, and would issue a ticket, approving it for use for another 12 months etc.

 

You can see here that if the Inspector made a mistake (or was conned), the Government was going to be the Defendant.

 

So Governments backed away on virtually everything they controlled.

 

I had a box seat to this happening. I used to regularly meet with our Minister for Sport and Recreation to discuss Speedway operations, arguably as dangerous as flying, and was critical of the Government changes as they tried to adapt, when the Minister said "Would you like to run your sport".

 

I jumped in and said yes, and it's been that way ever since - the Government just walked away from it.

 

What we did learn, as the lawsuits came in was that most people were injured in the spectator area rather than the sport, even down to food poisoning, but that we had to be a lot tougher on the participants if we were to avoid losing our sport because of financial cost.

 

In the bigger picture, as I recall most of the big claims occurred on children's water slides, and indoor go kart tracks, and those activities have severely diminished today.

 

Our hard work paid off and our claims history ensured managable public liability premiums to the point where our insurers kept us on after they had refused to insure any more truck operators, and our guys eventually travelled to the US to inspect their speedway tracks, because of our low injury record.

 

So for RA today the limiting factor is how well you manage risk, and in my opinion it is clearly being managed well because we can still afford to fly.

 

We do have a rump that can't help themselves though and have to promote risk taking.

 

Be aware that when an accident does occur, your past history and attitudes can now be very quickly discovered by the lawyers, and the result is either going to help your case, or sink you.

 

I've seen posts from people who have a string of fatalities behind them, and apparently couldn't care less, but in today's legal climate, they would find it almost impossible to defend a case where there was some doubt.

 

So it's not a good idea to promote risk taking these days.

 

 

[turboplanner]

 

Link for original Flying Flea