Maintenance costs

[AJ85WA]

Hi Everyone:)

 

Im just interested to find out bout maintenance costs of owning an plane. Anyhone with some helpfull insight.

 

Looking for stuff like how often would you have to service what and how much would it cost, also how much (estimates) does it cost to hire a spot for your plane at the airport o stand ect ect.

 

just in general all costs involving having a plane.

 

Thanks guys:help:

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Out of interest I got a quote for an annual/100 hrly a C150. As long as there is no AD's needing to be done and it is pretty straight forward, the quote was $1000,00. Hangarage at Archerfireld is around $400 per month. These are the reasons I choose to fly RA.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

The $1000 is just to get him started looking for work for himself....I have never actually seen an invoice for $1000 for an annual.

 

To address the question at the start of the thread. here are some representative figures. you can go more expensive and less expensive.

 

Purchase price for a typical two seat air craft, between $20K and $40k, but you can get a flyable single seater for as little as $7,000. Or if you like I could get you on to a real cheapy.

 

running costs are a bit like this

 

Rego, $110/ year

 

Licence, $4,000 - $6,000 once off and then $160/year

 

Hangar $25 - $50 per week, depending on where you live.

 

fuel $30/hr

 

Tyres and other bits that just keep croping up, $30/hr

 

Bottom line, if you have a job and you are looking for a brilliant hobby, (or in my case obsession) you can afford to do it. its a bit dearer than say golf or fishing but not that much dearer than you might think. It is however a shirt load of fun.

 

one of the other posters on here recently said that he gets bored with things. You wont get bored with flying.....there is always somewhere else to go and you landings could always be better. and when you do execute a perfect landing it only spurrs you on to do it again.

 

I just love flying and would reccommend it to anyone.

 

Cheers, Qwerty

 

 

[shags_j]

Didn't one of the RA mag's recently give a complete rundown on this topic? Wish I could remember which one it was.

 

 

[AJ85WA]

Hi Qwerty

 

Thanks for the reply mate, im kinda a bit like you, obsesed with flying!! Cant seem to ever get enough. So at the moments im busy doing my Navs for ppl so almost there.

 

But i have been looking around for some single engine fixed wings hence the reason im asking what other costs are involved. Your reply was very helpfull.

 

Has anyone ever considered a partnership to buy a plane....does it work well?

 

 

[Guest 172M]

Most simple singles,i.e. fixed pitch fixed gear around 1k>1.2K that is just the inspection cost, most aircraft have on going AWD's which appear at a calender time or an hours flown time and or both. These are all at cost plus, then you have your mandated maintenance requirement, oil change(with filter) every 4 months or 50 hrs Without filter every 4 months or 25 hrs (A Pilot can do the interim changes filter and oil about $100 and around 1.5 hrs of time) Magnetos every 500 hrs, asume they are overhaulable .$600 plus remove and replace. Engine, all certified engines have a manufactures recomended overhaul point This can vary(in US manufacture for GA aircraft)from about 1500 hrs>2400 hrs and or 12 years,then the engine may be run "on condition" as long as the engineer is prepared to sign it out .With an engine in good condition you could expect to have a 10% overrun on the makers overhaul point. So you would need to factor about AU25K for an average non turbo 4 cyl. engine overhaul. Then you have wear and tear items and stuff that has a life etc, Tyre+tube $200wheel/12V Batt $250+ given the average GA fleet in AU is at least 30 years old just every day wear and tear onthe airframe will need to be addressed along with the inevitable corrosion problems. Now you can look at the insurance costs, airport fees, air services fees........As RR said ,"If you ask the fuel consumption you can't afford one!!!!!!!!!!" or as I do, Just spend the BL##DY money:baldy:

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

The $1000 is just to get him started looking for work for himself....I have never actually seen an invoice for $1000 for an annual.Cheers, Qwerty

Me either. I saw that AJ85WA was flying at Jandakot and flying a 152. That's why I quoted him GA costs. 172M seems to have a real good handle on the actual costs of GA.

 

Thanks 172M for reminding me why I came back to RA.

 

 

[flyinghigh]

I've sat down many-a-time to work out the running costs of aircraft ownership in an attempt to justify owning an aircraft; yet to be convinced that it's worthwhile unless you do at least 200 hours a year (or cannot get relatively easy access to hire an a/c). I figure a 100-hourly on a (reasonably good) RAA aircraft is going to set you back around $1000, and on a GA aircraft about $2000 - these aren't based on any personal experience but just from talking around the traps with aircraft-owning friends (best case situation, halve these numbers, but average out some "good" 100-hourly's with some bad to get these numbers).

 

Parking for your steed will cost anywhere from $100/month in the sticks, to $1000/month undercover at some of the bigger GA airfields. There's a heap of variation, so pretty hard to give you a fixed number.

 

You should also take into consideration interest costs (unless you're fortunate enough to own outright), depreciation (10% a year?), insurance ($3000/yr +), and engine overhaul costs (figure around $10/hr on jab/rotax, $15/hr on a lyc/continental engine).

 

Putting all this together, I came up with a comparison on a C172 advertised for $70k (with 1000 HTR on the engine) vs a new J230 at $95k:

 

(sorry about the formatting, couldn't get it to tabulate properly):

 

C172 J230

 

Cost $70,400 $95,000

 

Interest 5.19%

 

 

 

Fuel $1.80 $1.40 (avgas vs. bp ultimate 98)

 

HTR on Engine 1,000 1,500

 

Engine Cost $18,000 $12,000

 

 

 

Fixed

 

Interest $3,654 $4,931

 

Hangarage $2,000 $2,000

 

Insurance $5,000 $3,500

 

Depreciate $7,040 $9,500

 

$17,694 $19,931

 

 

 

Variable/hour

 

Fuel $68.40 $35.00

 

Engine 18 8

 

100 hourly 20 10

 

$106 $53

 

 

 

 

Now look at that on an hourly basis overall:

 

Hours/year 100 150 200 250

 

C172 per hour $283 $224 $195 $177

 

annual $28,334 $33,654 $38,974 $44,294

 

 

 

J230 per hour $252 $186 $153 $133

 

annual $25,231 $27,881 $30,531 $33,181

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can hire a C172 at $200/hr and a J230 at $145. Which means I need to fly 200-250/hrs a year to justify owning an aircraft. Or, bigger picture, spend $35-45k/year on flying.

 

Put into these terms, I pick hire over ownership ...

 

But, and many will agree, owning your own aircraft is something special :-)

 

 

[AJ85WA]

Thats a real good post "flyinghigh" saves me alot of working out as i am new to these kinda costs. It does seem a bit pricey. Affordable but something that needs good research.

 

I would love to own my own plane :)

 

Will have to see how things go!!

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Wow, very comprehensive. I agree, if you sit down and do your figures like that, you will never find it within yourself to own an aircraft.

 

For the record, my 100 hourly's on my Tecnam usually cost less than $100 as did the ones on my previous Jab. My 'inside' hangarage is $110 per month.

 

Minimum 100 hourly cost on my Yak-52 was $2,500 and one was $5,500.

 

The concept of hiring an aircraft in the GA world is a real possibility as there are plenty of them sitting around on airfields rotting, but, try hiring an RA aircraft for a week, it will likely never happen.

 

Any flying is good, however, for me there is nothing like owning your own aircraft that only you fly and service and hand polish every inch of. When you get in, you 'put it on' and it feels like a glove and you know it hasn't been abused by others. However, it all comes at a cost.

 

 

[Guest Pioneer200]

We are so lucky over here in NZ

 

I pay $100/hr to hire either a Jab 160 or a Pioneer 200

 

Another bonus is we can book planes and take them away for long trips if we wish (2-3 days or more) as long as not needed for lots of training(Jabby on Saturdays mainly)

 

Just spent 2.5 hours at the weekend flying the Jabby down the coast to Waimate(past Timaru) then in thru the McKenzie country and home again.

 

This trip was great as we followed the coast most of way to Waimate then went thru valleys and over Southern Alps on way home,MAGIC WINTER SCENERY, and all this for $125 (cost share with pax)

 

Love it!!

 

 

[Matt]

If the ultimate aim of the thread is to somehow rationalise ownership versus hiring then as has been shown, there is no rational or logical reason to do it. It's purely emotional and so long as you can afford to and are happy spending the extra for your own personal satisfaction and enjoyment, then that's all that matters. Convincing the other half of that is the greatest challenge :)

 

Personally, I have great pride, get a lot of satisfaction and personal enjoyment out of owning my own aircraft...there's a cost premium associated with it, no logic or rational behind it, but for me it's worth every cent.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Convincing your other half can't have been too hard Matt. Some of us don't have it that easy.

 

To me, it's not purely emotional. If you rely on hired aircraft then you don't always have the freedom to go when you want, for as long as you want. There's also the safety aspect. You don't really know what's been happening to the plane you're flying when it isn't yours.

 

There's lots of other reasons too - but they were mainly for the benefit of my other half and aren't necessarily valid.

 

 

[Yenn]

Get a simple aircraft and the numbers look a lot better.

 

 

[Kaz]

From the 'other halfs' point of view

 

Convincing your other half can't have been too hard Matt.

With the Sportstar it was the great paint scheme, the look of your aircraft can be a deciding factor in the 'other halfs' approval.

 

With the CT4 I stood my ground for 3 whole days Slarti! In the end it was the smell of an old aircraft that got me and I gave in. I'm still impressed I held out 3 days.

 

About the cost - figure out what it will cost for a year based on your estimated hours. I allow for 150 hrs a year so it includes 1 years insurance, 2 x 50 hrly and 1 x 100 hrly maitenance, 12 months hangerage, 150 hours worth of petrol at a worse case senario price ($1.90 for the 2009 year) and also include magazine subscriptions, registrations for RAA, Warbirds license fees, airways charges etc. Then you put aside X amount each week/month into a separate account and all the costs come out of that. This way your supportive 'other half' isn't always seeing cash going out of the account for aircraft realted items. It still costs the same but you don't notice it

 

 

[facthunter]

Cost.

 

The RAAus types can look good when the aircraft is new. Try to be realistic with some of the figures.Wear and tear will catch up with you eventually ( and the AD's) and plenty of engines do not make it to TBO You might have a good set-up going with a mate to do the servicing, but you shouldn't count on it lasting for ever.

 

Kaz, Altering the way the figures are presented..... TSK TSK! but it might be necessary, so scary are the facts .Let's face it , At times the costs will be staggering. Wait till that noisy thing up front needs a total rebuild. Can't be far off now can it?

 

Just go without almost every other thing in life and you might be able to afford it. The advantage of owning your own plane is that you have control over the way it is serviced and operated. You know it's history. If you are safety conscious then this is important. it's YOURS. Regards Nev..

 

 

[AJ85WA]

Yer i deffenatly want to own my own aircraft! You only live 1's! Does anyone know how i can find ppl in the perth area which are interested in a Partnership of say like a cessna or Piper Cherokee?

 

Thanks AJ

 

 

[perthjay85]

G'day AJ85WA

 

i see your flying out of jandakot I to am aswell as another member that i know of mike. Best thing would be to pop into some flying schools and have a chat and ask if they can put a notice up on there boards stating your interest in a partnership of plane ownership.

 

I suggest if you do be prepared to pay for a lawyers time to write out a contract signed by you and who ever else is interested. That way if something comes up your covered and there can be no question about what should happen.

 

Jay

 

 

[facthunter]

Partnership.

 

Be wary of this one. You have no control over the other person(s). There must be a way to write a contract but in my view a straight partnership is a NO- NO. Nev.

 

 

[perthjay85]

if a proper contract is written you will be 100% fine. but make sure it is written correctly. hence the suggestion of getting a lawyer even if you have to pay for it to write up something.

 

along the lines of what percentage is to be paid for hangarage, overhauls and upgrades. Then it can be broken down into sections according to how many hours you fly each.

 

for example you cant make the other person pay 50% of overhauls if you fly for 75 hours and he only flies for 25 hours.

 

Jay

 

 

[AJ85WA]

Yes I would not do it if i did not have a water tight agreement setup beforehand. It really all comes down to finding a person with the same attitude as myself.

 

I have a family member which owns an aircraft in partnership with another person and cos they all get along real well and have agreements setup things flow pretty smooth.

 

Although i dont have the other half to convince and i could afford my own plane, i just think you would save yourself alot of money by doing it with someone else.

 

Ill go check out the flying schools for any ppl interested maybe i find someone pretty cool.

 

 

[winsor68]

Does anyone have any experience of the sort of partnerships that are frequently advertised in the Ra-Aus mag...seems that in some places you can buy a "share" of pretty good Ra-Aus aircraft for very little money plus a monthly payment/reduced hourly cost...?

 

 

[jetjr]

I know of a successful one with a Comanche.

 

Effectively the guys own shares in a company which owns the plane and incurrs all the costs, (except fuel I think) they then rent the plane by the hour from the company. They set the rates as they go and keep a reserve for big bills - which they have plenty of

 

Nice plane though

 

Covers the split up of bills vs hours used, and facilitates external hire too

 

JR

 

 

[David F]

Aircraft Costs

 

Hi Guys

 

I have a share in an aircraft which i bought when i first got my certificate and later on I bought my own aircraft. The share (1/6 in a 582 xair ) is for sale at $4500 its a cheap way in by the way we have never had any issues regarding availability servicing or any thing.In fact as a low hours pilot it was very helpfull to have an experienced mate to pal up with.Spent many happy hours buzzing around the lake with captain Bob.

 

When I bought my own aircraft I went for a Savannah VG It suits me I did not want a Jab.I have been very happy with my choice it is insured and hangered and wants for nothing.Its like this I have allways wanted to fly and am doing so my wife has horses (the kids have left home) I dont dig into the horse costs My dear and very understanding wife does not dig into the aifcraft costs.

 

Works for us life is not a rehersal

 

Dont try to rationalise it cos you cant just do it (stuff the accountants)

 

Dave

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

One more hidden cost

 

Also remember that when you have a mortgage, any other toy you buy means buying it on credit because that money could have gone into the mortgage instead! This is even more true when you actually re-draw or re-finance the house to pay for your toys!

 

You'd be surprised how much that costs in interest and makes the own vs. hire comparison even worse...