RAA in CTA.

[Foto_Flyer]

Just a couple of things I'd like to add. First, while we come under the direction of RA-Aus, as has been mentioned already, we all (RA and GA) answer to CASA. Like it or not we are all bound by the same rules of the air, airmanship etc. We have some exemptions that don't apply to GA but we also have some restrictions that don't apply to GA. Therefore, while yes, it is a responsibility of RA-Aus management etc. to monitor and reprimand bad/illegal airmanship (or lack of) it ultimately falls to CASA to wield the big stick!

 

 

 

Secondly, most of us have chosen to fly RA due to cost and a "relatively" "simpler" training environment. By simpler, I don't mean easier or less skilled. When I was doing my GA training a few years ago, even though it was a GAAP with tower etc. I sometimes felt less comfortable than I do in a CTAF as some of the students (some already with PPL but progressing to CPL) had the attitude that they didn't need to look out, communicate non-standard manoeuvres or even maintain a standard circuit pattern, as the tower controller would take care of that. Fun, Fun, Fun. Now, I'm not bagging GA or it's training. I may even convert over to a PPL some time in the future, but it just goes to show that CTA and GAAP's are busy and sometimes unpredictable places to be in. Not for the faint hearted! Therefore, I can understand if this was a mitigating circumstance to CASA's decision.

 

 

 

Yes I am also disappointed about the (for now) loss of the CTA endorsement as I only live 10 minutes from Archerfield. But hey, because I love flying, I am just happy that I have been able to achieve my dream to be a pilot, made possible by the privileges (not rights) gained for us through the efforts of RA-Aus and it's predecessors and at an affordable price. I could never have afforded to do this if GA was the only option. Therefore I don't really care that it takes me 45 minutes to get to Caboolture, I still get to fly and that's what it's all about! At the end of the day there is an awfully big lot of Class G to play in and I for one don't intend to waste any of it!!!!

 

 

[turboplanner]

To match the way people work, think, and react in this fast moving world today, the two most important qualities of leadership are consultation and communication.

 

I've previously said I would have made the same decision as John McCormick, Major, so in some respects I'm not disagreeing with you, but Heon is right, better communications would have explained the reasons for his decision, and allowed us to take corrective action.

 

Better consultation would have allowed all sections of RA aircraft to make their point, and that may have led to quite a different assessment.

 

I've read Eugene's defence of the ELB decision along with the other damage control reports.

 

I have enormous respect for Eugene, but he's describing a method of representation from the past, and the decision making process lacked consultation.

 

We pay for a ready made instrument of consultation in the RAA Magazine, so it,s possible to get a clear proposal out to all 10,000 members in one hit.

 

It's also possible for RAA to update communications methods and use more immediate media like email and SMS.

 

I've been on the receiving end of an SMS announcing a decision to 30,000 people which had been made just a few minutes before. Sure stops the fertile grapevine.

 

In the CTA case, that would have been much better than hearing it from individuals who somehow had the ear of officials.

 

With better communications, the CTA case could have been put in a layered way, so that CASA could have rejected some aspects and approved others - for example RA lanes to solve the tiger country problem, and shorten distance. These are easy to define and GA light aircraft have an excellent safety record working close to heavy aircraft.

 

The constant cry of the light end of RAA is also valid, and consultation can ensure that they aren't forgotten and saddled with inappropriate costs.

 

Better consultation would also have brought to the surface the wide variation in performance and equipment from the 150 kt brigade to the lighter end of the industry, and perhaps a clearer proposal may have been the result.

 

Communication on the CTA proposal simply hasn't been up to what is expected today.

 

We are left with the reason from Lee Ungermann that bad behaviour caused it, John McCormick referred to "safety", and 10,000 members are none the wiser as to the real reason, many of them financially disadvantaged.

 

Disregarding the pros and cons of who did what, the level of communication needs to be improved, and I'd like to see in next month's RAA a bit less spin and a bit more acceptance that we need to do better.

 

On the same subject, this is the most active website for recreational aviation in Australia, and should be one of the first points for RAA to get out a message.

 

The situation where individuals were able to advise that they had seen the decision letter, but the same letter, such an important letter failing, to reach this site is not acceptable.

 

Having said that, the Slarti/Leigh Ungermann communication was a good start to get more regular information out, without the alleged thousands of calls to RAA.

 

Consultation and Communication

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

I met John McCormick a few years back when he visited Ingham NQ. in his very nice single-seat tail-dragger Yak. We put the plane in the hangar for a couple of nights, which as a pilot he naturally appreciated.

Sorry Maj, it wasn't McCormick you met, he has only had the plane for less than a year. The guy you met was most likely 'Mike Coad' who owned the aircraft for many years before that. I know that aircraft very well.

 

 

[hihosland]

OOps forgot about the instrument time requirement.

 

Even so the argument still stands. For anyone who would have gained a RaAus CTA endorsement getting a PPL is attainable and not all that more expensive.

 

davidh

 

 

[Thx1137]

Amen Turbo, there is no excuse for a lack of communication these days thats for sure.

 

I work in an area where I sit literally meters from people who are supposed to tell me things and I am buggered if I can get info I need from these people in a proactive fashion so ease of communication has nothing to do with it. It seems it is more based on priority and a "how can I get me work done if I am doing other stuff" attitude.

 

 

[farri]

To match the way people work, think, and react in this fast moving world today, the two most important qualities of leadership are consultation and communication.

Consultation and Communication

:thumb_up::thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Cloudsuck, Yes it could have beem Mike Coad. frankly I do remember the impressive plane more than the pilot. We're going back a few years now.

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Cloudsuck, Yes it could have beem Mike Coad. frankly I do remember the impressive plane more than the pilot. We're going back a few years now.

Yes, I think we can agree that both Mike Coad and the CASA CEO share an impeccable taste in aircraft :) It must have won an award up there that year because it still has a plaque on the dash from that trip.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

An update for anyone who's interested.

 

I now have a shiny new CFI endorsment in my logbook which certifies that I am trained and safe to fly in:

 

(a) a control area; or

 

(b) a control zone for which there is a radar service; or

 

© a control zone for which there is no radar service; or

 

(d) a control zone at an aerodrome that operates under GAAP

 

Now I'm left wondering whatelse I might have missed :uhoh2:

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

qwerty, So ok I'm assuming you have, or have had a PPL, or student PPL ?, and have the endorsement in relation to that ?...or have you in fine Tassy style discovered some other magic loophole ??.............

 

And also I've noticed you had VGs on the Lightwing, can you give me a bit of a report on you're experience with those ?...................PM if you like as it's a bit off thread....cheers.....................................................................................

 

 

[Allan]

Maj, in post 133, qwerty said

 

I hold a PPL and have a significant number of hrs as PIC. My examining instructor neglected to include CTA and CTR on my licence approval when he signed off. He was clear in his personal congratulation to me on passing my flight test for my PPL that I could now fly, and I quote, "Anywhere in the world". My instructor was well aware that one of my motivations for gaining my PPL was specifically to allow access to CTA. I had no reason to go checking my licence or the the regs.

[Guest Maj Millard]

Thank ALLAN, sorry missed that...................................................:hittinghead:

 

 

[K-man]

What I find plain dumb about all this is:

 

To get an RAA CTA endorsement I would have had to:

 

a) Obtain a class 2 medical

 

b) Pass the written CTA exam (Allegedly harder than the GA requirement)

 

c) Demonstrate that I am capable of handling the situation of flying into Essendon and Moorabin.

 

Due to the RAA endorsement being shelved, I now have a different option:

 

a) Obtain a class 2 medical

 

b) Pass the written PPL exam

 

c) spend two hours under the hood for instruments

 

c) Demonstrate that I am capable of handling the situation of flying into Essendon and Moorabin.

 

That will take a little more time and quite a few dollars but, at the end of the day, I am still the same pilot and I will be piloting the same aircraft in the same airspace. Maybe the fact that I am not intelligent enough to see a great difference here is why CASA don't want me in their airspace!! :baldy:

 

 

[hihosland]

So all you have lost K-man by the collapse of the RaAus CTA endorsement is the 2 hours under the hood.

 

Not such a great loss I feel and still available to those who desire/need it.

 

Davidh

 

 

[jetjr]

Simple clarification please

 

Ok, I may be missing something here but, OK I go the PPL with CTA endorsement, Can an average 19 regd Jab get to access CTA? What gear does it need and what needs to be TSO'd?

 

JR

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

with appologies for the lack of references. In addition to what you need anyway, your a/c needs;

 

For GAAPs

 

VHF radio

 

Recognised aero engine (eg Jab, Rotax. not converted VW or subaru)

 

Class C and D

 

VHF radio

 

Recognised aero engine

 

Mode C Transponder

 

The transponder needs to be certified (Reg 47??) every two years.

 

(This is discussed earlier in this thread I think)

 

 

[tangocharlie123]

Qwerty the CAO 101.55 does not disclude VW or subaru it is in the C A of the plane.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

I'm not a lawyer but you seem to offer evidence which contradicts your statement, refer to CAO 101.55 CL 6.1

 

This is not what I was refering to however. I have seen the passage, I think it was in the orders but I can't find it. I will have another go when I get time.

 

 

[tangocharlie123]

Hi Qwerty do you have a list of approved engines please.

 

I was also refering to 6.1(B & C) of the CAO 101.55

 

they have had to approve them on experimental aircraft VH reg as the manufacturer flys into CTA with a Subaru.

 

but then It has been proven that whats good for them is not neccicarily good for us.

 

cheers

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

I think that you might be right about CL 6 of 101.55

 

Cheers.

 

 

[turboplanner]

What goes around comes around

 

 

Apparently a poster, who on another site had implied that we were a rabble incapable of handling CTA, appears to have been caught in his own crossfire, after accusing a GA pilot of unsafe flying.

 

It seems he was then silly enough to identify himself, and followed that up by an alleged infringement of CTA…….in his GA registered aircraft.

 

Could be some ATSB mail coming his way I’m told.

 

Already, I’m told he’s been deleting hundreds of posts and one or two of his “identities”, just a little too late.

 

His new-found status as Aviation’s Dufus should remove a lot of the anti RAA clutter we’ve had to put up with.

 

What goes around comes around.

 

 

[Guest Graham Lea]

Why not just post the rego of his aircraft? :-)

 

 

[ahlocks]

Why not just post the rego of his aircraft? :-)

That would be engaging in the same sort of conduct wouldn't it? :patch: Surely no one here wants to behave in the same manner? :ne_nau:

Then again, he did do the dirty to one of our members (since deleted) didn't he....:Disappointed:.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi qwerty, i did my GFPT at archerfield 10 years ago and 6.3 hours navs. Been flying RAA every since with a couple of long breaks. I misplaced my GA spl and rang up CASA, they issued me copy from their records a couple of weeks ago. My gfpt was recorded but nothing about flying test at a GAAP airfield was recorded. To be quite honest im not sure if it is supposed to be on their as an endorsment or not since in is still a SPL

 

 

[dazza 38]

Thanks for the PM qwerty.The airfield is Quiet noise wise, but VERY busy on the weekends with Gliders, but we all fit in together very well.