An Open letter to all RA Aus Pilots

[Simonflyer]

Hi.

 

I thought Id write this because I have been reading all sorts of things here and there about our operations, and Im more than a little concerned and pretty peeved over it.

 

The reality is that we do not have respect in the wider aviation community, and I feel it is a very small but stupid bunch who are screwing it up for all of us, because in my experience RA pilots take aviation every bit as seriously as anyone Ive met in GA and place an onus on safety and airmanship just like the other people using the air.

 

Are YOU one of the mindless fools?If so sort it out.Go learn or practice more, and get honest and humble find your weaknesses and work on them and realise the damage you do to all of us and eventually yourselves with your stupid and selfish actions.

 

Most rules are not made just for the hell of it in aviation but rather they are cut and decided on the many lives lost..Yes there are some decisions from the powers that be that may seem knee-jerk and sudden, but I think the majority of the rules of the air are put there to protect us.Some of them get lost in translation, but the main aim is to keep us safe...From ourselves in some cases.We are after all the MAIN cause of accidents.

 

To all the Pilots in RA out there who want to ignore the rules, show off to mates, play dumb, not learn how to use a radio correctly, bury their heads in the sand, endanger mine and others lives with their idiocy, use fly ins as a chance to do their most unsafe and stupid flying, Not prepare for flights properly, treat all the rules and regs attempting to be obeyed by everyone else with contempt(or be too lazy to have even a basic knowledge of them and using the fact that we are flying RA to say"why should I bother?") and basically put all RA operations in danger and allowing snobbish Ga people to say "see i told you so"...Sort your S:censored: out.

 

The rest of us who stay quiet or silent when we see someone doing the wrong thing and laughing it off..Well thats up to us to report it to the authorities.There is an unspoken rule in this country to not dob people in, but it is putting lots of people in danger.Going up to these idiots and arguing with them will do nothing, but by finding a way to threaten their privelidge to fly-that will work faster than any stern words.

 

From a concerned RA Aus Pilot..

 

 

[RKW]

A good letter, Simonflyer. Like so many recreational pursuits, it is a minority that seem to go out of their way to stuff it for everyone else. There is no reason why an RA pilot cannot attain the same standards of proficiency and professionalism as a GA pilot. RA aircraft often require a greater degree of skill to fly than GA aircraft! We owe it to ourselves and our fellow aviators to maintain high standards.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

 

 

[HEON]

Hits the nail on the head.

 

While the GA organisation has their on percentage of cowboys, ignornant, out of date, and general incompanents, RAA is viewed in a harder light as the new boy's (and girl's) on the block.

 

We have to be better because of this, but this seems to be not the view of some by their actions.

 

 

[Yenn]

I would question that we do not have respect drom the rest of aviation. I have not found it so and I would also question the statement that arguing with the idiots will not work. Maybe argue is the way to stuff it up, but I will tell them the error of their ways, quietly and if that doesn't work I have also done it loudly. I havn't dobbed anyone in yet, although I was accused of doing that years ago, led to much acrimony and in the end I had a letter from CASA and RAAus saying It was not me that did the dobbing in and all is sweet.

 

Set a good example and scowl at idiots makes me feel better, until of course I am the idiot.

 

 

[Simonflyer]

I agree with parts of your post Yenn..

 

But go have a look on PPPrune if you want to see the sort of respect we have, although granted many on that site are probably hungry CPL'ers trying to make a hero of themselves and angry they cant just walk into a jets cockpit with 250 hours..There is a huge amount of sniping and abuse on that site which is exactly why i avoid it unless i need something, and stick to this great site.

 

Ive made my fair share of stuff ups..Nothing too dangerous as yet thank god, but when I put the plane in the hangar Il always try and talk it out with the CFI or another instructor, or even on this site to make sure Ive learned some lessons out of it.

 

The problem is that of the real bad apples, many of them probably dont know or more frightening dont care that their flying is sub-par and they are the ones who need to be getting a wake up call to snap them out of their resignation or arrogance....

 

 

[Thx1137]

I agree with parts of your post Yenn..Ive made my fair share of stuff ups.

The problem is that of the real bad apples, many of them probably dont know or more frightening dont care that their flying is sub-par and they are the ones who need to be getting a wake up call to snap them out of their resignation or arrogance....

This is the thing. We all stuff up, especially when new. The difference is who continues to try and improve. I expect most pilots that want a career in aviation will try to improve. They have to. But for many of us, like myself. Once I have my certificate I don't _have_ to improve or learn anymore. I am (apparently) close to doing my test but comparing my skill level with my instructors I feel very inadequate. I might be safe enough but I most certainly am not my definition of "good".

 

I would _love_ to know what airmanship issues were demonstrated at the airshow. It is great to learn from. The most common issue I see (and contribute to :-() is radio calls. This issue is most certainly not just RA pilots though so it is a problem for all of us.

 

Someone once said here that getting the certificate is a "licence to learn". I think that message really aught to be driven home more. How many of us get the certificate and think "thats it, I am done"?

 

There will always be people that think they are good when they are not though I expect there are various reasons that can occur. When we no longer fly with an instructor (even if we do and they don't pull us up all the time) we probably mainly judge our skill by the landings and maybe altitude deviation, other things may be forgotten. We have no nothing that is easy to compare our performance with so I think it would be easy to get lax and not even notice.

 

Steven.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

'dobbing in' i think it's a form called a '225'

 

 

[jcruffle]

I've come in a little late here, but would certainly echo Simonflyer's remarks.

 

I came to RAA as a well entrenched (38 years) GA pilot (PPL, CPL) a couple of years ago. Why?: because I was expanding my recreational flying opportunities and could see the 'common-sense' approach adopted by RAA as apposed to CASA whose focus is increasingly on commercial operations and more restrictive regulations.

 

In the back of my mind, however I have always been pretty impressed by the amount of autonomy given to RAA by CASA and have always been quietly worried that, given the rapid expansion or RAA, the effectiveness of the RAA regulator is going to be more and more in the spotlight and closely monitored. Too may stuff ups and we could lose the lot.

 

But it is not just up to RAAus. It is vital that all RA pilots maintain exemplary standards of flight procedures, preparation, planning and maintenance to ensure that we are perceived to be worthy of the priveleges we enjoy.

 

There is no room for cowboys in our circles. Those days (if they ever existed) are gone. Our flying should be fun, but also professional and responsibile.

 

My two bob's worth.

 

John

 

 

[j3pipercub]

Speaking as a primarily GA pilot (And only in my humble opinion of course), there is one main reason a great deal of RAAus aircraft aren't respected. The reason is radio calls. If I hear a smooth calm collected voice (even if they're a bit hard to hear over the wind or engine) giving me a position that is well known (not over Bob's farm) and an eta to the field or other intentions, I am a great deal more likely to trust that aircraft. The flip side is a radio call that requires me to question the pilot on his intentions, position (as I don't know Bob even though I'm a local pilot) and eta. The latter radio call makes me question the pilot's training and situaitonal awareness and puts me more on edge when arriving into the circuit.

 

In my humble experience, I have found that RAAus radio calls generally could use some work, not meaning to have a go, just offerring some advice. I believe that if that aspect, along with Situational Awareness could be improved, you might see the way the RAA are viewed increase somewhat...

 

j3

 

 

[GraemeK]

I agree on the radio thing. I reckon part of it is instructors not making sure that their students are competent in radio - I often hear students (both GA and RAA) repeatedly making poor calls without their instructor apparently correcting them.

 

Sometimes I think we have a "near enough is good enough" attitude, which is not appropriate in our environment.

 

 

[Guest mike_perth]

I reflect the radio call situation last week on a flight from YPJT to YBUN I had a RAA aircraft making a rolling call on a runway with a 14 knot downwind after I had made a joining crosswind call for the opposite runway (into wind clearly duty runway) I then ask his intentions and get no reply nothing at all after me making 5 or 6 requests for his intentions only to hear on the CTAF he was making a 10 mile inbound call for another airport!

 

It certainly dissappointed me and my instructor (was a GA flight) to hear or not hear him why make the first call at all of your not going to follow it up really frustrating as I dont as yet have a negative view of RAA pilots but if things like that happen who knows. But on the flip side I hear some pretty silly things come out of the GA side like pilots annoncing their arrival at reporting points when they are infact 4 or 5 miles from that point!

 

Anyway enpough ranting - just use the radio.

 

Mike

 

 

[Yenn]

Heard on Saturday over the area frequency, "cabin staff prepare for landing".

 

Don't think it was a Jabiru.

 

 

[Simonflyer]

Heard on Saturday over the area frequency, "cabin staff prepare for landing".Don't think it was a Jabiru.

 

 

[skybum]

SimonFlyer, no argument from me. Airmanship and professionalism is not the sole realm of GA.

 

If anyone knows the story at NRM or know the people in question. Just have a quite word to them and inform them that they will no longer be tolerated.

 

 

[GraemeK]

Heard on Saturday over the area frequency, "cabin staff prepare for landing".Don't think it was a Jabiru.

Dunno - it's always part of my downwind checks, just after the carb heat and hatches and harnesses bit and just before the "and cross check" :thumb_up: It's my message to my instructor to start panicking .

 

 

[Spriteah]

Just a quick question. Are Gyro pilots under RAA? Was it them at NRM? Or did someone mentions trikes?

 

Jim

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Good question Jim and I'm surprised nobody else mentioned it. Gyro's are operated under ARSA, not RA-Aus so they weren't under their juristiction at the event other than the fact that they had a stand there. The flights were probably best described as 'marketing' dogfights.

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Hi all,

 

we are all at different stages in the "game". I do hope that we all strive to learn from others as well as ourselfs.

 

Stuffups do happen though - on the radio as well as in the flying. The majority of us will recognise when we screwed up and aim to improve . There is no harm in that. Constructive critisism is always welcome . I have heard stories where someone got "up" someone else because of something they did. This I find unhelpful and counterproductive.

 

As far as the real rule-brakers are concerened they will come unstuck eventually and we read about it in the papers.

 

safe flying

 

the grey nomad

 

 

[turboplanner]

Walter, what's driving the hot air at the moment is open and persistent rule flouting rather than innocent and intermittent mistakes, which are made both in in RA and GA.

 

That behaviour sometimes impresses newer pilots with disastrous results, and if you add to that inaction by the Association which is supposed to be managing the situation, inevitably the Regulator notices and takes its own action.

 

 

[jetjr]

Good question Jim and I'm surprised nobody else mentioned it. Gyro's are operated under ARSA, not RA-Aus so they weren't under their juristiction at the event other than the fact that they had a stand there. The flights were probably best described as 'marketing' dogfights.

Well shouldnt it have been easy then?

 

"RAA would like to state the unauthorized flying display presented at ???? was carried out by non RAA aircraft, therefore has no ability to take action, we however condemn the participants and thier show of poor airmanship"

 

Its critical we take responsibility for members and take action when required. We are "Self regulated" remember. If we can dodge a bullet we should. By doing nothing we accept the criticisim as being fact.

 

RAA needs to strengthen and professionalise its public relations. Possibly make more statements on whats its position is on some issues, especially concerning "regulation". They need to be SEEN to act.

 

It needs to be clear who RAA is representing and who we are not.

 

As a body grows, it gains strength but also attention. This attention can help or hurt the body depending how it is managed.

 

Many of the issues we debate on here are really RAA vs public opinion. Bodies like CASA often reflect public opinion, rightly or wrongly.

 

The EPIRB debate was possibly seen as something we couldnt oppose. The public are sick of footing the bill to find and pick up people doing stupid things. Yes guys many think of us flying (very) small planes as stupid.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I understand that ra-aus frequently furnish CASA with information on offences committed and the offender details. CASA then decide if action is to be taken based on the evidence presented to them. I have seen this take place first hand, so it can be done if necessary. Don't wish too hard for enforcible action otherwise if you aren't filling out your logbook or maintenance log properly or something minor you might find yourself in the poo.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'll be happy to be in the poo for failing to fill out my log book correctly.

 

Whete are you going with this theme?

 

 

[jetjr]

Brent thats good really, part of my point is they (RAA) should be letting people know this is going on. That way those inside CASA and out can see that it is doing a good job of the whole self regulation thing.

 

RAA should also publicly comment on significant problems and state actions taken

 

Yeah logbooks is a problem, there probably should be some scritiny of logbooks/ maintainence logs. Someone is supposed to look at logbook at a BFR dont they?

 

If we had to submit a simple AC inspection report every few years, L1/L2 which included maint log then no one can say we arent doing anything

 

Otherwise at some point someone will say" they cant manage it themselves so lets implement a strategy we know works" - LAME Annual inspections.

 

We have to remain AHEAD of the game with regulation/radios/ELT/etc etc , and do it our way otherwise we will end up doing this stuff someone elses

 

JR

 

 

[Guest Ken deVos]

Not just what happened at Narromine... ?

 

A rumor has it that a 19 registered aircraft was observed by a red faced RA-Aus official in the company of a CASA representative, doing aeros at the Bundy show without permission/approval.

 

Anyone care to confirm?

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Brent thats good really, part of my point is they (RAA) should be letting people know this is going on. That way those inside CASA and out can see that it is doing a good job of the whole self regulation thing.RAA should also publicly comment on significant problems and state actions taken

JR

Stay tuned, you might hear of something in the not too distant future. That being said though, I'm led to believe that action by CASA is rare on RA-Aus pilots.

 

For example, if you breach CTA in your RA-Aus registered aircraft, your details are passed on to CASA. Should they wish to take action (let's say this was one in a number of offences) they will if they believe that it is warranted.