Runway surfaces

[DarkSarcasm]

Hey all,

 

I have a (possibly stupid) question. Just before anyone says that I should be asking my instructor this, I will ask him next lesson but looking at the crazy Victorian weather, I may well have forgotten my question before I see him next! (two lessons cancelled this week, not pleased:sad:)

 

So, my question. Does the runway surface make any difference to landing technique? I know that the different surfaces (paved, grass etc) make a difference in how long the landing roll is etc, but do you need to change your landing technique when landing on different surfaces? Like, flare earlier for example?

 

This is purely out of curiosity. I was just wondering if, after learning on a grass strip, you'd need to change something when landing on an asphalt strip.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Tomo]

Not a silly question at all Darky!

 

The short answer is yes, it does make a difference to your vision for flare, which I think you just have to get used to, another problem is the runway width... if you are landing on a real wide asphalt strip, most people I've talked to say they tend to flare to high.

 

I've landed on, wide and narrow asphalt strips, grass, black soil, white and brown gravel... and each one is a bit different for your technic to know when to flare! But don't really worry to much yet, once you start your x-county training your instructor will take you to different airports/strips and you'll get the feel for it I'm sure.

 

But then I'm a pretty fresh pilot, so I'll let all the "Experts" tell you!

 

Ps. One thing you may notice when landing on asphalt for the first time if you've just done grass landings, is that if you don't touch down straight, or have a cross wind, it's not as forgiving! Ie. it will grab on the tires.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Thanks Tomo :)

 

I know I'll eventually learn this when I start doing x-country flights (one day...), I've just become curious now because I'm learning on a grass strip rather than asphalt and I'm just wondering what difference it makes... I'm keen to learn all I can :)

 

I can see what you mean about the vision during flare. Asphalt may well make that easier since it's easier to differentiate the runway from the rest of the ground (if that makes sense). Having a painted centreline must make things easier too! :P

 

Do you need to flare earlier/later (highler/lower) to get a smooth/soft/normal/insert appropriate adjective here landing on as asphalt/gravel strip?

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

Hey DS, I like your enthusiasm. To answer your question. You fly onto (land) exactly the same on any (almost any) surface. As Tommo has pointed out you get a bit of a different perspective effect from different surfaces and different widths, also from different approach terrain but thats another story. The Aircraft will feel different on the ground on the different surfaces. You will get plenty of time to experience this with your instructor. Grass is my preferred surface, it is forgiving particularly for tailwheels and helps by dragging on the wheels "gluing" you down. There is a very slippery gravel strip in Tas that is great fun in a xwind, the a/c slides sideways in one long power slide, great fun but the gravel can chip the prop and the tail plain. Sealed strips are good in the wet as they stay hard but I dont like the squeel of my rubber ($) peeling off the tyres.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Thanks qwerty, that's very helpful :)

 

I think that one of the advantages of learning on a grass strip is the lack of a centreline..you get better at judging where the line should be which must help when actually having a centreline. Does anyone agree?

 

Does pavement make you 'bounce' more because it doesn't grip as well as grass or does it not make any difference? The ground roll must be a bit smoother though...

 

That gravel strip in Tassie sounds rather fun....

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

The lack of a centreline is relatively unimportant as I am sure that you are lining up on the "whole" strip during final and when you get to the flare you are looking at the far threshold.

 

Sealed strips require a bit more finesse in a conventional undercariage a/c but are much the same for tricycle undercarriages. there mat be a bit more tendancy to bounce but you will easily cope with it.

 

The gravel strip is at St Helens, there is always a xwind and it is usually a challenge to land there. There are trees on the up wind side which contribute nicely to turbulance to make for lots of interesting landings.

 

I guess you are hanging to try out the Zulus!!!

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

yessssssssssssssssssssss I am! Had two lessons booked this week and both cancelled. The weather here in Vic has been crazy recently. I'm REALLY hoping for good weather on Wednesday morning. I'm rather excited about doing my first take off/landing too (not sure if my instructor agrees...hehe) :)

 

 

[Tomo]

Do you need to flare earlier/later (highler/lower) to get a smooth/soft/normal/insert appropriate adjective here landing on as asphalt/gravel strip?

Well Qwerty's answered that... the flare hight should be pretty much the same on any type of surface, but due to optical elusions etc... it's not always real easy, but you do get used to different surfaces.

 

And yeah, Gravel is pretty good fun in the tail dragger type airplane!

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Yeah, a taildragger endorsement is on the list for the future. :big_grin:

 

I swear, when I started to fly I wanted a basic sort of licence. Now there's stacks of endorsements I want to get.....luckily for me my bank balance is (currently) in ok health. I think I'll be asking for flight hours for christmas though!

 

 

[Tomo]

Mmm yeah, same problem! Low level and Formation, is in the books for the near future for me I reckon...

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Argh I hadn't even thought of those! Currently the plan is XC + PAX endorsements on RA certificate then get a PPL and get lots of endorsements - taildragger, aerobatics (having a trial flight first to make sure my stomach won't give in...), instrument and maybe night. And mutli-engine too. I might start thinking of low level and formation too now though!

 

*watches bank balance disappear*

 

 

[Vorticity]

I learnt to fly out of some rough strips. The only thing I had drummed into me in a plane such as the Tecnam or J160 is to keep the nosewheel up and maintain back pressure while taxiing just like the taildragger.

 

 

[Tomo]

Argh I hadn't even thought of those! Currently the plan is XC + PAX endorsements on RA certificate then get a PPL and get lots of endorsements - taildragger, aerobatics (having a trial flight first to make sure my stomach won't give in...), instrument and maybe night. And mutli-engine too. I might start thinking of low level and formation too now though! *watches bank balance disappear*

Oh yeah, PPL, CPL are on the books for the "further" future, and obviously night and instrument would be necessary for that to be of any real use, and while I'm at it, Multi-engine sounds pretty good too!

 

Oh just remembered, I'm gonna consider doing my glider-tow endo to... towing hangliders in the Dragonfly's etc...

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Gliders, cool.:thumb_up: Although that's probably the one thing I don't want to do. I have found out that if you work in aviation law (which I'd rather like to do) you can claim flying lessons as a work related expense....if I can do that, I'll go right up to ATPL and get every endorsement available!

 

 

[Yenn]

The only differenc that upsets me is when I go to a very narrow strip and cannot see any of the strip once I flare. Most off putting wondering if I am still on the strip ar just dashing through the long grass. Mt Jim Crow near Rocky was my first encounter and I still don't want to land there again.