J430 Battery Problems

[Guest Jabbanaught]

HI Guys

 

While i love my plane and all the things that have been said about Jabiru's are true , I think i have almost reached the point that i want to sell mine or burn mine , And that because of Battery issues.

 

My problem has been looked at by several people including the factory in South Africa and still the problem persist .

 

My plane has a brand new battery fitted because we thought that is the problem , But alas no difference ,

 

Currently she stands permanently on a trickle charger .

 

Yesterday i had to do my renewal , So i arrived early (because of being afraid of battery ) .

 

Pre-flighted the plane , Got everything ready , Climb in , She started without problem , I switched no instruments on , and let her run for about 15 Min ,

 

The DE arrived i am ready , Turned the key , she did not even do one full turn , NOTHING &%%&(*%%((^ yes NOTHING . Had to get the DE to sit in the plane while i do the very dangerous (but used to ) jump start .

 

This is just not funny anymore and i am at my end with this plane .

 

Solutions that i have been given is to put an isolator switch in , I understand the theory behind it , But i want the cause of the problem , If somewhere a leak is occuring , And a fire thereafter , No isolator switch will safe me in the air .

 

I have jump started the plane flew for 2.6 hours , Volts went to 14.4V Amps came down to 2 , Landed , After two hours , NOTHING !

 

I am now at a point that i tend to fly the plane less because of the hassle with starting her everytime .

 

I have a Dynon D180 fitted and Garmin GPS (this is removed from the plane as i use it in another Plane ).

 

Any advice short from selling would be appreciated .

 

Thanks

 

Paul

 

 

[Tracktop]

Sounds like you need to change the type of person looking at your plane electrics

 

Maybe try an auto electrician with the right tools and expertise to locate your problem.

 

It cannot be that hard to locate the problem for the right person.

 

Ray

 

 

[Captain]

Paul,

 

There is definitely something wrong, as I have a J230 with the standard battery that also has a 180 Dynon and lots of other electrical load, and mine starts strongly without charge after being in the hangar for up to 4 weeks, even on cold days here.

 

Yours is going to need a systemmatic investigation .... but to die so quickly there has to be a good flow of power where it is leaking (or your starter motor has a fault when cranking), so a good ampmeter testing lots of wires in a systemmatic way should allow you to isolate where the problem is or isn't ........ but if I were you I would start at the battery and investigate the solenoid, the starter motor, the voltage regulator and all other large wires.

 

If you find any current in any wire, with everything switched off, will be a good start.

 

Or as Ray suggested, if the above is not your bag, then get the best aviation or auto electrician that you can find.

 

Let us know how you go.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[skeptic36]

Paul,

 

A simple way to find a leak in the system is to disconnect one terminal from the battery and fit a 12 volt trouble light between the lead you took off and the battery terminal. Make sure everything is turned off and if there is power flowing the globe will illuminate,

 

then start removing fuses, when the light goes out that is the circuit with the problem.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

If the trouble light shows no current flowing then I would suggest that the charging circuit isnt working. A simple way to test it is to measure battery voltage (DC) across the terminals at rest. Start the motor and measure again.

 

Note that in a jabiru the charging circuit doesnt work effectively at idle and as such you will need to have assistance, or be in the cockpit with the multumeter leads extendedout from the meter that is with you to the battery terminals. Lift the RPM up as you would when testing magnetoes. The voltage shoult lift by at least 1volt, probably 2, where at rest I pressume around 12-12.5v and at reasonable revs, around 13-14.5v. If it doesnt lift then the charging circuits are not working. If that is the case do not fly until they are. If the charging circuits arent working the motor is drawing current just running and at a point in time the battery charge remaining will be insufficient to allow the motor to continue to run.

 

These tests should take no longer than about 30 minutes to run using equipment that most who maintain their own aircraft should have.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

P.S if in Bills fault finding scenario removing fuses one at a time doesnt ever get the light to go out then either someone has added something to the wiring and has bipassed all the fuses and master switch, or there is a wiring fault. In either case that must be rectified before you fly again, inability to prevent current flow to a circuit through the master switch means that if the equipment concerned ever faults then you have no option but to watch and see if it feels inclined to burn, or merely release all the stored smoke..... neither fun while PIC.

 

Actually before breaking out the multimeter or trouble light perhaps worth asking one question, is there anything electrical on the plane that works all the time whether the master is on or off, such as intercom, turn and bank indicator etc. For the battery to fischarge to the point that you cant start in 15mins to 1 hr suggestes either large current draw in, where I cant think of much in a jabiru that would draw sufficient current to cause that, or faulty charging circuit where the 15min run instead of helping the situation actually made it worse. If the 15 min run was just at idle then it will also not have helped at all. If I was a betting man, I'd be betting that its the charging circuit that is more likely the problem

 

 

[jcruffle]

Paul, I had similar problems when my Jab was new. Blamed the battery, starter solenoid etc and it turned out to be the starter motor itself. Changed the starter and no more problems.

 

Get an autoelectrician to check inside the starter.

 

John

 

 

[Tomo]

I'd do what has been suggested above, pull battery plug off and see if there is any current draw between it and the battery terminal, doing it with a multimeter would be more effective than the test light, but just depends on what you have available. When I say being more effective, you can tell how much is being drawn, with master off and check with master on also, it shouldn't be a great deal of current draw with even it on.

 

If it's making the battery flat within 15min, it's got to be a pretty big drain somewhere. I'd be checking your charging system, not only for charging but for the cause of the current draw as well, sometimes if the diodes pack it in, those things turn around and actually start working like a mini dyno. Doesn't usually happen on todays AC alternators, but, Jab's system is the integrated system so you just never know!

 

 

[Flyingphot]

Just a thought but maybe can't see the forrest for the trees.

 

It would take an exceptional drain to flatten a battery in 15 minutes. Sounds to me more like a problem somewhere in the supply line. This could include the starter. When it is warm it is not allowing current flow. The advice about using an auto electrician makes sense to me.

 

I had a similar problem in my Savannah. I would often climb to 3500 feet and shut down motor to do some (short duration) gliding -losing about 450 feet per minute.

 

Then I started having starting problems on the ground and immediately stopped airbourne shutdowns. After much searching finally found the problem was a swaged cable end - looked perfectly good and could never fault it with a meter but it seemed to fail under starting loads. Only found the problem by replacing leads one section at a time. Fortunately the problem was with the second lead that I changed. Have had no repeats for more than 100 hours - but still no airbourne shutdowns.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

 

 

[Captain]

Paul,

 

Further to my post #3 and those from others, I'll bet you R5 that the issue is in the starter motor or the stater solenoid .... with an 80% probability that it is the former.

 

And for the battery to leak down as quickly as you say, the wire should show heaps of amps discharge to easily light a bulb or show on a meter .... and they must almost be hot to the touch.

 

I hope we have been able to help you find it and you can start to enjoy your 430 the way they should be enjoyed.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Tracktop]

The suggestions so far are all good. If your unsure what you are doing, using a globe (low wattage) initially is better than a meter eg if you try looking for current with the meter and the fault is large, you may exceed the current capacity of the meter. If you look for volts in series with the circuit you could get false readings from non critical high impedance loads if there are any. eg clock, radio

 

You could also have multiple or intermittent faults.

 

By all means look and try, and at the end of the day if you cannot fix it

 

I KNOW it ain't a hard problem to fix for the right person with the right tools.

 

AND even if they charge (comparatively) high rates, they should fix it quickly, so not lots of hours charge out time. If they can't they're not the right person MOVE ON to someone else

 

AND its got to be MUCH MUCH cheaper than the sell or burn option.

 

Then you can enjoy your ac as it should be enjoyed.

 

 

[Modest Pilot]

You can check for charge on your Dynon. Bring up the voltage option and do a run up. You should see around 14 volts. By the by the ignition is a completely different system to the electrical curcuit and the engine runs fine if the battery is dead.

 

 

[Guest Jabbanaught]

Ok This is what we did .

 

We tested Battery , and that showed 13.18V

 

Removed the Positive side , and connected tester in series .

 

The POsitive has three wires connected to them , when removed two of the three was still showing 13V .

 

We then pulled the Main Fuse in Engine compartment , One of the wires then showed almost nothing the other still 13V .

 

Additionally pulled charged fuse , And then both wires showed almost nothing .

 

Please advise further as i am dumb with these .

 

All of this was done with MASTER completely off .

 

Regards

 

Paul

 

 

[Modest Pilot]

Hard to say without being there. It may well be the regulator has shorted out. You can isolated it and check aircraft systems with only the the battery connected only for a start. If that's O K might be easyest to take the regulator to an auto electric shop. He be able to tell you if it's O K in a couple of minutes.