Suggestions

[Thx1137]

G'day Everyone,

 

I have been doing some sums based on information in these forums plus info I have read elsewhere and have come to the conclusion that I would like to purchase an aircraft with a cost of approximately $40,000. I was hoping to go to a Jabiru 160 but while I could buy one I don't want to spend that kind of money, I would need to fly 4 hours a week to justify it and I wouldn't be able to do anything else!

 

There are two main requirements.

 

1. Safety (!! I am not terribly interested in fragile aircraft whos engines always conk out!)

 

2. The ability to carry 2 people

 

3. Nosewheel or tailwheel

 

The rest of the requirements in order of importance

 

1. Comfortable (for me this means not open air)

 

2. Cruise speed

 

3. Range

 

I have done (and continue to do) an amount of searching but the number of test reports seem fairly limited so I am interested in pilot opinions.

 

 

[shags_j]

If you want used aircraft you could always look in mervs suggestions thread. new one, good luck.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hello Thx1137. It will always be cheaper to hire a HP a/c than to own. With purchase price, insurance etc. You will have to fly ex amount of hours per week to break even, so to speak. To alot of people me included, it isnt about cost, its about owning your own a/c and the enjoyment that it brings. S@!#$ i owned a piper Archer and one, 100 hourly cost me $18 000 dollars. Would i buy another aircraft, yes i would, but not a old GA aircraft.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

dazza 38, I am not a Savannah owner, but I just did 12 hours in one on a ferry flight. Check one out if you can. They have many interesting qualities, high cruise speed, low speed safe handling, you can do anything with them on landing, and they don't seem to notice high wind, or crosswinds, on landing either. They will in the future make an excellent trainer, and the fact that the latest batch of imported kits are already spoken for, tells me this aircraft will not be a bargain for too long. I predict a bright future for these machines, and they are already gaining a wide acceptance both in Europe and the US/canada. The latest XL (not the one I flew) has already corrected some of the minor flaws in the earlier kits, and should be close to the ideal aircraft.......In a way they are a bit like the Slepcev Storch, sure they are not the prettiest, but when you learn what they can do, they start looking pretty !!............................................................................

 

 

[Thx1137]

Hello Thx1137. It will always be cheaper to hire a HP a/c than to own. With purchase price, insurance etc. You will have to fly ex amount of hours per week to break even, so to speak. To alot of people me included, it isnt about cost, its about owning your own a/c and the enjoyment that it brings. S@!#$ i owned a piper Archer and one, 100 hourly cost me $18 000 dollars. Would i buy another aircraft, yes i would, but not a old GA aircraft.

Yeah. I know thanks, I have done the numbers. And I don't have a PPL so not terribly interested in a GA machine!

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi maj, i looked at the advertising for the new savannah. the factory built version. Looks like a nice machine. $89 000 pretty good price too, if somebody wants to put in on line. The kit version looks like excellent value. I have read the other threads on this machine, the guys seem to be happy with their purchases. cheers.

 

 

[FlyBye]

I have a excel spreadsheet that I made to help a mate make a decision on buying an aircraft. If you like I can email it to you. Not sure how to post it.

 

I think he made the right choice.

 

 

[Simonflyer]

How did poor Thx's thread go from him looking for a 40 grand aircraft to people suggesting he look at a 90 grand aircraft??oh yeah i forgot..This is aviation we're talking about:laugh:..........

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Being a Savannah owner myself and therefore a little biased I do think it would be the greatest choice for $40000.

 

That's if one could be found for this kind of money.

 

A VG kit ( not the new XL ) is a little cheaper than the XL and whilst it would blow the $ 40000 budget into the weeds it should not cost much more than $ 60000 for the kit and a new Rotax 912ULS. A radio and prop might be included as well with a little luck.

 

This way you would start with a brand new aircraft and a zero time engine that will last "forever". There would also be no "unknowns" and therefore unexpected expenses would not jump out of the woodworks and spoil the fun later.

 

best of luck with your search:thumb_up:

 

the grey Nomad

 

 

[Thx1137]

I do like the sound of the Savannah but as you say. It might not fit the budget.

 

I have done a spreadsheet that captures all my living expenses (realistically :-)) which is proving useful. It has:

 

1. Income

 

2. Mandatory Expenses (regular including lotto tickets, regular lunches/dinners etc. ie:all the ittle things we do we can still do)

 

3. Loans (short term loans. ie: a year or two to run in my case)

 

4. Aircraft expenses broken down into

 

4a. Static expenses (loan, maintenance, hangar, insurance, etc)

 

4b. Per hour expenses (EG: 50 and 100 hourly type of expenses, fuel, etc)

 

5. Fuel burn and an expected hours per fortnight

 

The results of the calculations are:

 

1. Cost per hour to fly

 

2. Total allocated to maintenance for a 12 month period

 

3. Amount of money left after:

 

3a. Mandatory Expenses removed

 

3b. Mandatory Expenses and loans removed

 

3c. Mandatory Expenses and aircraft expenses removed

 

3d. Mandatory Expenses, loan and aircraft expenses removed

 

3c Gives me an idea of how much money I would have left over if I bought something after the loans are paid.

 

3d gives me an idea of how much money I would have left over if I bought something now.

 

The key to getting good data from the spreadsheet is to make sure everything is included. For that I went though the last three months of bank transaction history to help jog the memory. It is amazing how quick the little things add up!

 

So far it seems to agree with how much I have left in the bank each fortnight so that is probably a good thing but it also lets me play 'what if'...

 

Steven.

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Hi Steven,

 

You made very valid points regarding expenses and overall cost etc. I must admit when I bought the Savannah none of these where even considered. I did - and still do - have other financial commitments and I did think that we had blown our budget into the weeds but here we are some time later and still going strong.

 

I did have a few "sleepless" nights after committing myself to the purchase as there was always the " did I do the right thing" and " can I really afford it" factor but that was soon forgotten and all that remains is my aircraft in the hangar and life goes on as usual.

 

Back to the $40000 question. You mention engine reliability - understandably - as very important. This would cut out the Jabiru ( sadely).

 

There is however the Gaxelle / Skyfox .Some have very few hours and they do have a Rotax 912. They are also very well built and as a bonus the wings can be folded back if required. On the down side they are a bit slow and make the savannah look fast. It is a damn fine airplane though !

 

Best of all you'll have change from $40000.

 

whatever you buy best of luck!

 

the grey Nomad

 

 

[Thx1137]

Thanks Guys,

 

Yes, I was looking at a certain Gazelle. I also couldn't see how the wings folded. I can't rely on having someone to give me a hand to setup an aircraft so it would have to be doable by one person. The other thing was our summers get pretty warm and it seemed it has a bit of trouble climbing when temps are in the mid thirties.

 

I know with my budget I won't get everything I want but I have only just started looking too :-) If I didn't have to pay hangar fees (OUCH!) then I could badget a fair bit extra. (I feel more calculations coming on!)

 

Unfortunately, no way would I fly an aircraft I built. I have no patience or skills in that area!

 

 

[Yenn]

Engine reliability cuts out the jabiry?

 

From my reading of the last RAAus mag, I think there were more reliability problems with Rotax than Jab engines.

 

There have been many remarks made about Jab reliability, but very few people have come up with actual details. A friend had a Rotax 912, which gave far more trouble than I have had with my Jab engine. His problems were in the electrical charging system.

 

 

[Thx1137]

All was good. Bolly prop up front as I mentioned makes a big difference though!

Cheers

 

Dexter

Thanks Dexter. The prop certainly sounds interesting. Would the difference be enough to climb at MTOW on that day? Me and most of my passengers aren't particularly light! :-)

 

I reckon I could be asking a bit much there :-)

 

 

[Thx1137]

Engine reliability cuts out the jabiry?From my reading of the last RAAus mag, I think there were more reliability problems with Rotax than Jab engines.

There have been many remarks made about Jab reliability, but very few people have come up with actual details. A friend had a Rotax 912, which gave far more trouble than I have had with my Jab engine. His problems were in the electrical charging system.

From reading lots on the net it sounds like the early Jab engines might not have been fantastic but pretty much everything I read about the later ones sound like they are pretty good. I had my heart set on a J160. I will be doing a few hours in an SK (and any other aircraft within budget range that I can find) soon.

 

I welcome opinions but the proof is in the pudding :-)