Dinner with CASA's CEO John McCormick

[Guest ozzie]

Not quite correct WAGS. i do have a probem with people who just rock up and throw the whole game off the rails. what really does concern me is the number of professional GA instructors who are worried about their future careers. With the loss of airports around Sydney, the decrease of student intake and along with the decrease of current pilots who will not progress from pivate to commercial areas or PPL pilots who are moving down to RAA because of not only growing costs but over regulation in the GA areas.. has anyone noted whether we are also experiencing a delcine in the intake of trainees in the maintanence areas. Like i said before there are plenty of other things to entice newbies away from our sport and aviation in general and this is moving into the areas of maintainence and such. far better rewards to become a plumber or sparkie than to repair aircraft under the threat of jail if you stuff up. also as i said before i have seen time and time again of individuals rocking up throwing their weight around and creating caos by chopping and changing things with no thought of what long term damage he is doing.

 

aging GA fleet rotting in the sun! i am sure the easy way to solve that problem is to turn them into beer cans. But who is going to lose out there.

 

you tell me wags. No, the man has to be slowed down made to think about his actions who they are going to affect and who will be left standing.

 

 

[facthunter]

Respect.

 

Dick Smith ,whatever you might think of him, FLYS just about everything. This would put DICK in a position to make an informed comment. The CEO does not have a GA or ultralight background. An ex Qantas and Cathay executive, might easily have trouble getting his mind around the difference between International airline operations and Ultralights. Obvously his problem has been made our problem. Has he consulted with his own officers who have been working with RAAus, and giving us the good oil at Narromine and other venues, over the past 4 years or so?

 

As has been pointed out, a decision to defer is not a decision at all. WE do have enemies out there who will jump on any opportunity to BAG this organisation. I have tried to get some of the contributors to this forum to be heedfull of the fact that everyone who wants to, can get access to this forum and use the material as "gospel". Some things may have been done in reality that are pretty "off" and should be sussed out so that you and I who try to do the right thing, don't lose out because of their example. Goodness knows what poisonous stuff about RAAus antics/capabilities has been fed to him. Even so, IF the CEO made that comment, he should be answerable for it. Might sound like a cute one-liner but it is not adequate for the situation at all. I have every right to expect better, Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Nev, i remember Dick Smith on the Casa board, years ago. I totally agree ,a guy who flys a A/C from a trike to a cessna Citation, has to have a pretty good idea of whats going on. Correct me if im wrong but i think he left because he was getting hounded by others, because he didnt tow the party line as is were.

 

 

[Guest becky1]

Hi,

 

I cannot see what some of you that are replying to this thread are so upset about,what has the RAA lost in the way of priviligies since John McCormick has been in charge? none that I know of. CTA and weight issues have been deferred not cancelled,we cannot expect to get everything that we ask for handed to us on a plate and it still may happen anyway,at least give them a chance and if they want more time let them have it without looking for negatives and blaming it all on one personality.

 

The RAA have done a fantastic job over the last few years gaining us new freedoms and they have been approved by CASA,we have CSU.retractable,amphibious,faster aircraft,our height limits are about to be increased,we have been able to envelop the relatively new LSA regulations which is allowing us to be able to fly the latest and the best factory built aircraft available in the world,if CASA were really against us like some of you are insinuating we would be still flying around below 500 ft with a lawn mower engine attached to an aeroplane that still resembles the Wright Flyer.

 

And why are we listening to unconfirmed comments which may have been changed with every version about what the CEO may or may not said plus putting on this forum the very distasteful nickname some non thinking person has decided to name him,surely we are beyond that sort of behaviour.

 

John McCormick does fly G.A for pleasure just as we fly RAA for the same reason. Sure he has a military and airline background and considering he is overseeing all aviation in Australia which includes airlines,military and civilian airspace etc.,I would of thought they were good qualifications,so again give him time to truly find out what the RAA is all about and we have to prove to him that we are capable of moving on to greater things and I believe thats why he is deferring these decisions so we can do just that.

 

Jennifer.

 

 

[Guest JRMobile]

Jennifer - Well said!!

 

;)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

quote},if CASA were really against us like some of you are insinuating we would be still flying around below 500 ft with a lawn mower engine attached to an aeroplane that still resembles the Wright Flyer.

 

Jennifer.

 

i 'd like the chance to fly a Wright Flyer. i and my friends would like our original ANO95:10 back, i have no problems with lawn mower engines. remember without the grass roots mob you would not have any freedoms and your aircraft would have VH on the tail.

 

 

[Vev]

Jennifer,

 

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Well done to you and the others for making this engagement with McCormick possible.

 

<o:p> </o:p>

 

Whilst there is a vocal minority that use destructive language to make their point, I’m certain the majority of RAA members prefer to use a constructive approach to achieve progress.

 

This will be a great opportunity to probe and learn, it will also be a great opportunity to show our maturity and how serious we take our current responsibilities and any future privileges we seek.

 

<o:p> </o:p>

 

Unfortunately, I can’t attend but I will be looking forward to hearing the output of the meeting and getting the real story.

 

<o:p> </o:p>

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

 

[Admin]

Hi,I cannot see what some of you that are replying to this thread are so upset about,what has the RAA lost in the way of priviligies since John McCormick has been in charge? none that I know of.

Jennifer.

Jennifer, I think if I can recall the only impacts to date that RAAus members have had to or are going to endure with McCormick at the reigns is extra costs as in PLB and Radio. The only other losses have been in the areas of potential opportunity so I guess one couldn't consider that as a tangible loss.

However, and not really seen by the general RAAus membership, is the extra strain and workload that CASA has been putting on RAAus management of late could perhaps in due course bring about even further cost to RAAus members in terms of increased membership fees. This is simply brought about by CASA making RAAus do all their work for them. People don't work for free.

 

Also perhaps CASA themselves are challenging RAAus members trying to force the RAAus to be a mini CASA with extra regulatory workloads, reporting requirements etc...and NOT the other way around of RAAUs trying to be a mini CASA. Perhaps the RAAus are now having to work even harder then ever before in fighting to protect it's members freedoms again enduring further cost.

 

So if RAAus has to do so much more work for CASA, work even harder to protect its member's freedoms and all for the same amount of money from CASA, NOT 1 CENT MORE, which down the track forces the RAAus to increase its membership fees, or limit its services then that in itself is a loss to the RAAus members.

 

What could eventuate down the track is higher costs that the RAAus members may have to pay without getting anything in return so all this means YES, the opportunity loss IS a tangible loss to the RAAus membership brought about by CASA on all RAAus members.

 

Just my simple thoughts off the top of my head, nothing more!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Remember that the remarks about the CEO's nickname and his 'back to the weeds' comment did not originate from me. i just passed on the comments that were made to me. as for nick names i have been given several ( one for each aviatin disipline that i partake in). I can live with them. actually i find the nick name of Skull to be pretty cool. I think most of the problem has been created by the CEO himself. maybe he should try and use a bit more diplomacy in his wording and casual remarks regarding sport aviation.

 

back to my main point do you think that the CEO's actions comments ect will affect the intake of pilots, AMEs ect and there retention in the industry.

 

lot of worried people out there who are concerned of their future.

 

Ian you are your thougts are pretty accurate. and what if the RAAus cannot take on the extra wokload.?

 

The same increased workload is also applicable to the APF as well, not sure yet if the HGFA are in the same boat. There has no been a reply from them as yet.I think they are still pretty occupied by the recent changes in their boad from the recent elections.

 

 

[wags]

Lets have dinner together.

 

Thanks everyone we are starting to get some really good points together to put to the CEO, so please keep your thoughts flowing here on this forum.

 

Facthunter - I agree there are those out there who will do anything to "knee-cap" RAAus. It really all comes down to $'s and cents. We are seen as a threat to their continued existence and therefore they are feeling it in the hip-pocket... when the hip-pocket is hurting the worst behaviour is more often than not displayed and desperate people do desperate things. We have a battle on our hands I believe.

 

Ozzie - I haven't seen the game come off the rails, rather it has been put onto a siding for a time. I heartily agree with you however and your comment about the demise of the aviation scene in this country. I think the saddest day was when Qantas virtually eliminated their apprenticeship scheme as it was from this pool that came the LAME's etc we need. But this is deviating from what I want to say and could be another separate thread altogether.

 

My really broad brush policy question would be along the lines of how CASA sees recreational aviation developing into the future - long term do we see a split along the lines of recreational vs commercial (so that the recreational component of GA is eventually absorbed into a recreational framework - thus we can either go for a private licence for recreational flying or a commercial licence for GA) or do we perpetuate the current system based on the aircraft we fly?

CASA is expected by the government to "pay its way" and is therefore no longer a service provider to the aviation industry paid for by the government. Unfortunately for CASA, RAAus doesn't contribute much (if anything) to the money pot, and I guess you get what you pay for! No doubt we are seen as a complete "drain" on their resources... far better to promote an area of aviation where the $'s and cents can be sourced - eg commercial aviation.

 

Not so long ago a very, very senior CASA employee told me that it was his personal opinion GA would eventually be "split" into two distinct groups... recreational and commercial just as GraemeK alludes to in his post above. That made good sense I thought.

 

It was also this persons opinion that RAAus would eventually be the organization that would be expected to control and look after the recreational side of things, but RAAus needed to "mature" first - whatever that means and I don't want to go there.

 

Now getting back to why this thread started... this dinner is a perfect opportunity for 200 GA/RAAus aviators to be in the same room with the "man at the top" and let him know how we feel and what we realistically expect of CASA now and in the future. Are we are setting our sights too high? Can't answer that, but I certainly expect to be far better educated when the evening is over... and by supporting the evening and attending there will be 199 other aviators who will know fact and not fiction at the end of the day. At least we will know for sure what we are up against and how the cards are stacked.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

could i suggest that the organisers to record (voice only)this meeting and then MP3 it for download.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes I thought Dick Smith was the right man also. Unfortunatly because he was going to 'stir' things up a bit, and get a few people off their axxxs, this wasn't acceptable to many. It also ment that a few pieces of 'deadwood' would have lost their valuable jobs. Dick did have a lot of potential, and yes he probabily was 'moved on' premeturely. Dick was very much in favor of emulating the US airspace system, which like him, if you've ever operated there, you will know, is so far ahead of what we have ever had here. IMOP.............................

 

 

[dazza 38]

Thats what i thought MAJ.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Brilliant man. pretty good chance things would be a lot further ahead with less of a us and them attitude if he rebuilt the system. He has done so much for our country overall and he just gets screwed over most of the time.

 

 

[wags]

Round peg in square hole.

 

Couldn't agree more re Dick Smith, but guess he rubbed the wrong people the right way and ... well he's simply moved on to better pastures. Can't help but feel he was a round peg in a very square hole and somehow didn't fit in with the entrenched people who were CASA at the time.

 

Who else would bring out a box of matches and call them "Dickheads", but then come to think of it that was just after he left CASA so who knows what he was thinking at the time. But I can guess!

 

 

[GraemeK]

Who else would bring out a box of matches and call them "Dickheads",

There are those of us can remember in the late 60's or early 70's when he had his delivery van driving around Sydney labelled "The Electronic Dick". Made the little old ladies blush!

 

A great marketer (his ads in the electronic mags all had a black page border, so you could flick straight to his pages) and a passionate defender of aviation.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I thought it was fantastically appropriate that Dick went to work at CASA.

 

If a Tinsmith works with tin, and a Silversmith works with silver, and a Goldsmith works with gold, then what does a Dick Smith work with?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Slarti.. why that would be mountains wouldnt it, where Dick in Farsi is probably Mohammid....<sigh> I note that the mountains still havent moved

 

 

[Guest becky1]

All sit together

 

Hi Everyone,

 

Just thought it may be a good idea to have all of you that are members of this forum and who are coming to the dinner to maybe all sit together and get to know each other personally and enjoy great company

 

If I could suggest as we are advertising this event in both this months Aviation Trader and the RAA magazine that you purchase your tickets now to make sure we can get you in and when you do let us know that you are a Recreational Flying site member or contact me direct

 

[email protected]

 

The easiest way to order your tickets [$75] is probably to send a cheque made out to the Gympie Aero Club, Attention Jennifer, Gympie Aero Club, P.O box 1096 Gympie 4570.and we shall let you know via email that it has been received and have your tickets waiting for you at the door.

 

Also if you are flying in ,we will transport you into Noosa and back again the next day, plus to make you feel more secure about your aircraft overnight you will be able to tie it down in a private property that adjoins the airfield. For accomodation bookings at the resort their phone number is 1800 010 777 and let them know that you are a participant in the aero club dinner for a reduced rate.

 

In the meantime keep those questions coming in through this forum, so we can get the facts that we need to know as recreational pilots from John McCormick.

 

We are really expecting to have a great night, informative and entertaining and save your appetite for the three course meal.

 

See you there.

 

Jennifer

 

 

[wags]

What John McCormick said in "Flight Safety" magazine.

 

The Nov-Dec edition (Issue #71) of "Flight Safety" magazine was delivered yesterday and it contains a report following an interview with John McCormick - the article is headed... "R is for regulator".

 

Here are some quotes from that article, once you have read them you will understand why it is important that as many RAAus aviators as possible attend the dinner on the 5th December with John McCormick so we can all express our concerns about the future of our freedoms we currently enjoy under RAAus.

 

Quote... "John McCormick is stamping his mark on CASA, reasserting its role as a big "R" regulator".

 

Quote... "We will consult with industry when it is appropriate, but we will not be aiming for paralysing consensus. We will take on board everybody's advice, and we will make the decision - that's what an "R"egulator does. We can't clog ourselves up trying to please everybody."

 

Quote... "I don't like doing things in the short to medium term, because that means you've got to go back and do it again in a short to medium time frame."

 

Quote... "The Sports Aviation Forum is another important forum set up to keep the communication channels open between the various sports aviation bodies and CASA. "We'll keep consulting with them both as a group, and individually", he explains. "We've done a lot of work with self administering organisations on risk management, and legal work reorganising their deeds. Ideally, in the fullness of time, I'd like to be able to throw some more people in there from CASA." (My underlining to emphasize what he said).

 

Quote... "The regulations come first. What's right comes first. If it's not popular, we'll try to ameliorate the effects as much as possible. But we still have to do what's right."

 

Looking forward to seeing you all on the 5th December.

 

 

[Guest becky1]

Hi Everyone,

 

The dinner with John McCormick is less than 2 weeks away now,remember this is our chance to show up and be heard,to let CASA see that we are keen aviators,that we are very safety orientated and that we want to do as much as possible to assure that we can keep flying without great costs well into the future.

 

If we do not show up to these things you probably couldn't blame John McCormick for thinking that we probably aren't very interested and if thats the case you really are handing him a mandate to do as he sees fit because he is never going to know what the rank and file pilots think.

 

The executive of the Gympie Aero Club came up with the idea of asking John to speak at this dinner,for which he very gladly agreed,as a couple of us on the committee subscibe to this site,and have read time and time again people complaining and airing their worries about the path CASA may be leading us down.We thought this would be an opportunity for all of us to get the facts,but alas!! except for some very local members of this site who are coming along,it appears the other members have the attitude thats its easier to just keep complaining about CASA from behind their keyboards rather than booking their table and being seen.

 

Sure I can understand probably most live no where near Noosa,there are costs involved,and we understand that,but what we do not understand is the RAA members who subsribe to this site from surrounding major regional areas north of Brisbane who are either very complacent about there place in the aviation community or those who make statements such as "that I am certainly not going to let John McCormick see me at anything he might be speaking at" and there is no way I can see the logic in that.

 

Our club has gone all out here wishing to do something for GA private pilots and RAA, such as offering free transport from YGYM to Noosa if you were flying in and putting in heaps of work to make this dinner a success and guess what? its the GA fraternity who are the ones that are making the effort to come along,with the exception of a very keen group of 10 RAA pilots from a successful flying school at Caloundra.

 

So there you go,if you think $75 dollars is to much for dinner and to let CASA know that we are here and that we are very serious about the freedoms we enjoy with our flying,then we will try and come up with something cheaper next time,but even if we did, would that same apathy still be there so the aviation regulators can say,no one cares we will charge them what we want,restrict their activities and maybe they will all disappear.

 

I am truly sorry if the night is to expensive for some,but thats the best we could do,for good food and a pleasant evening.We would really like you to come and we believe that it is important that you do,I personally want to continue to have affordable and fun flying as I assume all the members of this site would like to have,so maybe with a big presence on the night,who knows it may even lead to bigger and greater things for the RAA.

 

All the details are at the start of this thread,please feel free to contact us and our club will do our utmost to make you feel welcome

 

Happy flying

 

Jennifer

 

 

[airangel]

Maybe you could ask him why the 600kg mtow has been canned !

 

 

[tangocharlie123]

Hi Jennifer what is the latest that I can book a ticket or two.

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Hi all,

 

I couldn't agree more with Jennifer. There are many RAA members out there who could attend this dinner. It is just a matter of priority. $75 will not break the bank and we do get a great dinner as well. It is important that enough people show up as it is a demonstartion to Casa that we ARE interested in what IS going on. It does work both ways and if we can't be bothered with them than they probably can't be bothered with us.

 

So everyone please make the effort and come along and show support. That's what it's all about.

 

safe flying

 

Walter

 

 

[Admin]

Maybe you could ask him why the 600kg mtow has been canned !

Airangel, the 600kg has not been canned here in Australia and is currently going through the normal processes of approval :big_grin: