Low Level Endorsement

[Tomo]

Hey!

 

Got into the air again today, and took off in the Drifter and went and did some real low flying! successfully passing my low level endorsement.

 

I would recommend it to everyone to do, even if you never really fly low level, likes of me. The reason I did it, is because there is a lot of really good stuff that everyone needs to be aware about I reckon. For instance, flying over water, near trees, ridges, power lines, animals, wind effects, whirly winds, thermals, turning and using top rudder on steep banked turns, and why? crossing tree lines/fences/mountains at an angle, and why?

 

There was a lot of little things that I learnt today that will be very handy to know in the future.:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Nice one mate, sounds like it would've been a blast doing the endorsement. How long did it take?

 

 

[Tomo]

I think it was about 40mins on the briefing, and 35min airtime in the Drifter.

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

I think it was about 40mins on the briefing, and 35min airtime in the Drifter.

Nice, just a quick one then!

 

 

[Tomo]

Yeah, He went through everything and I performed well apparently so, that was good. A definite eye opener though.

 

Hey got a question for you... What should you do if you are going to touch down on water? assuming it's a lake, with no waves etc...

 

I learnt the answer yesterday, let's see if one of you "new" pilots know. If not, it's no competition:big_grin:

 

 

[RetiredRacer]

Did you do that with your local instructor Tomo?

 

 

[Relfy]

I'll have a go here...lock the wheels to skid on the water surface a bit better so u don't flip over as easily? I think I saw that in Watto's forum on STOL yesterday.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

above all hit the water wings level don't dig one in.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Don't, like one of our RAA high officials in the past, undo your seatbelt prior to impact with the water !!........................................................................................

 

 

[JimG]

Gee, that was quick Tomo . I'm currently 80% of the way though the LL endorsement with my Instructor near Gatton training in the his drifter also. So far i've done 4.4hrs over 5 sessions with ground briefings before each flight.

 

My Instructor is a current crop spayer

 

Jimg

 

 

[Yenn]

I did low flying as part of my GA training, years ago, but can't find it in my log book. We used numbers for training details, rather than writing in what we did, so now I need to find out which number corresponds to low flying. That was with Schutt Aviation at Grovedale.

 

 

[Tomo]

I'll have a go here...lock the wheels to skid on the water surface a bit better so u don't flip over as easily? I think I saw that in Watto's forum on STOL yesterday.

Yep, Spot on! something so simple and effective, but not many even know it's a good thing to do.

 

 

[Tomo]

Gee, that was quick Tomo . I'm currently 80% of the way though the LL endorsement with my Instructor near Gatton training in the his drifter also. So far i've done 4.4hrs over 5 sessions with ground briefings before each flight.My Instructor is a current crop spayer

Yeah, I guess each person is a little different. As long as all the syllabus has been taught and the person is deemed competent, I guess it takes as long as it takes.

 

I had a lot of benefits due to learning from him from scratch, and he has taught me a lot of the required stuff already before... etc, Also having lived in the country all my life, He said I have a very good understanding of everything in the ways of farmers etc... You can't do low level in a town... so most low level flying is over someone's farm, or paddock.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Don't, like one of our RAA high officials in the past, undo your seatbelt prior to impact with the water !!........................................................................................

I Totaly agree with MAJ, NEVER take your seatbelt off before ditching, the chances are, you will be knocked out when you hit the instrument panel and drown. i would unlatch the door, if in a enclosed cockpit. A drifter no promblem HA HA. Most aircraft flip over, so you have to be aware of which way is up. when you egress the cockpit, Ps- dont forget your passenger. this is my opinion only, it is up to the individual pilot to assess the situation as it happens.I hope it never happens to any one CHEERS

 

 

[Tomo]

What is the idea that some people do undo there seat belts?

 

In my thinking the seat belt is there for an impact situation, you hardly need one in the air, unless turbulent, or you fly upside down... then to go and undo it just before you hit something sounds a bit backward to me!:confused:

 

It's like driving in a car, and "Oh"! I'm gonna crash, better undo my seat belt!

 

 

[HEON]

JimG seems to be doing LL where I did mine, and yes mine took quite a number of hours.

 

Think it very handy to do (fully).

 

Said after mine that it rearly tought me NOT to fly low level unless you HAVE to!

 

 

[Tomo]

Said after mine that it really tought me NOT to fly low level unless you HAVE to!

Yes, I'd have to agree...

 

 

[Relfy]

...first of all I'd like to thank Watto for all his help the other day...

 

I had a look at the STOL video and in particular the pilot locking the big wheels across the water only to release them at the point of making contact with the river bed. Very neat indeed!

 

Has anyone here ditched in the drink or know anyone who has, that may be able to share the experience?

 

 

[Tomo]

Yes it's quite an interesting thing... there is a few pictures I've seen of a few different aircraft skiing along over water, and I always did wonder how they do it.

 

In the latest CASA Safety Mag, there is a listing of a AT, who was experimenting with scoops on the wheels to fill the hopper. Apparently That's how they run along the water, on their wheels... Except the scoops were a bit to draggy on that test run or something and tipped him over. Unfortunately very fatal to the pilot.

 

It comes into the LL story, because a lot of good low level flying area's are over a lake or dam, due to it's mostly obstruction free area. But not very fun when the 'old faithful' pulls the pin! so locking up the brakes and skiing along for a bit, you may be able to make a more survivable ditching! Another thing with water, don't look at the water in front of you for a reference point... because you'll fly into it without realizing it, until you are in it... look at the horizon or something solid on the far bank. You seem to loose all sense of depth perception on water, especially when there is sky reflection, and the water is clear-ish.

 

He got me to do it, and it's very true, you don't really know if you're heading toward the water or not, that's if you are looking at it... So moral to this story is, don't just look at the water in front of you... look at the far bank or horizon! or you'll end up in the drink...!

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Tomo the pilot you are refering to was unfortunately COL PAY. He was a VERY VERY experienced AG and war bird pilot. He will always be missed. regards Dazza

 

 

[Spin]

I can't find the article at the moment, but I can recall reading an interview with Scully Levine, who has done a number of aquaplaning displays with Harvards in the last few years and he clearly stated that part of his pre display checklist was "brakes OFF". I mentioned this to an ATP friend and he confirmed that brakes off was correct but didn't get through the explanation before we were interrupted. I'll dig the article out and post; here's a photo to whet your appetite in the meantime.

 

 

 

[Tomo]

Yes that's him Dazza, pretty sad...

 

Spin, yep they are the photo's I was reffering to, pretty cool! See how they've got the canopy open, must be for if they flip over hey? Living on the edge I reckon!

 

 

[Tomo]

Gee, that was quick Tomo . I'm currently 80% of the way though the LL endorsement with my Instructor near Gatton training in the his drifter also. So far i've done 4.4hrs over 5 sessions with ground briefings before each flight.

JimG, Just for interest sake, would you be willing to run through what you've done so far? On the Practical side?

 

I'm just curious.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

I can't find the article at the moment, but I can recall reading an interview with Scully Levine, who has done a number of aquaplaning displays with Harvards in the last few years and he clearly stated that part of his pre display checklist was "brakes OFF". I mentioned this to an ATP friend and he confirmed that brakes off was correct but didn't get through the explanation before we were interrupted. I'll dig the article out and post; here's a photo to whet your appetite in the meantime.

From a physics perspective there is no practical difference between brakes on or off. It is the shape of the tyre that is aquaplaning, weather the tyre is turning or not is insignificant. Try this for an experiment, get a car aquaplaneing (over 90kph, 30mm water) and then apply the brakes (not recommended on a motorcycle), you will find that breaking makes no difference whatsoever.

 

BTW Spin, what aircraft is that in your avatar. How about a full size pic?

 

Qwerty

 

 

[Tomo]

From a physics perspective there is no practical difference between brakes on or off.

From a high speed point of view, yes... Low-ish speeds, I'm thinking different.

 

Try crossing water over the road with your brakes applied... I've seen vehicles in the middle of a paddock from doing just that. Driving along at 100kph, Oh Heck! water over the road, hit the picks, and off they go into the black soil paddock only to sink up to there ankles.

 

But yes I agree... Motor bikes tend to aquaplane either way, one's with road tyres especially!

 

PS. Those Harvards would be close to full steam I reckon...