The Radial Rocket

[Deskpilot]

I want one.....Came across this today and I'm smitten. A dream only alas. Perhaps there's some-one here in Oz that would like to become a distributor.

 

Enjoy the video...must have sound on, loud.

 

Radial Sales LLC

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Looks a bit like a little Grumman Bearcat, especially the tail. Also very similiar fuselage and engine dimensions to the Pitts type 12, which uses the same engine. Yet another fine aeroplane from the yanks............................................................................

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Yet another fine aeroplane from the yanks............................................................................

And the Russians of course with that lovely M14P engine (Yak / Sukhoi etc).

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes, but what Western Radial did they copy for the M14P....looks a bit Pratt& Whitney to me !!..................................................................................................................

 

 

[shags_j]

beautiful aircraft. So what do we have to do to get that into RAA ?

 

 

[facthunter]

Engine Clone?

 

It is a very neat engine. Very detailed, and from what I can determine, quite a good unit. I can't think of any Pratt engine of the same size. Re Getting it ( the aircraft) on RAAus at the moment about as likely as a snowflake in hell, I would think. Nev.

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

Looks a lot like a PW 985 (450 horse power so a little bigger)

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Yes, but what Western Radial did they copy for the M14P....looks a bit Pratt& Whitney to me !!..................................................................................................................

No, not even close Maj. The M14P has a planetary reduction gearbox and is fitted with a small air compressor. There is no starter motor (saving weight) and instead uses an air distrubitor and pumps very high pressure air into each cylinder to force the piston down on the correct stroke to rotate the engine for start up. The Russians make such robust and reliable gear. The western world could learn a lot from Russian aviation. The engine comes in 360 hp standard or 400 and 450 suped up. They have won numerous world aerobatic titles with these engines. Here is one pulled out of a friend's Yak and a pic of my old Yak with cowls off. And they sound so sweeeeeeett.

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt]

Agree they make some solid equipment but an engine with a 500 hour TBO and general life limit of 2-3 overhauls isn't exactly robust...not compared with the 2000 hour TBO standard of most US engines these days.

 

All that aside, I am a fan of the M14P, great sound and despite short life span, are known for their reliability.

 

Now, you want a hot looking Russian-US aeroplane, check out the Bear360...this is on the top of my wish list!

 

 

Bear Aircraft

 

 

[IanR]

Matt, the TBO for these seems to vary greatly - the Bear site says 1500 hours. I have heard as low as 800 but not 500 ?

 

Most info I have come across is similar to :

 

- What is the TBO of the M14?

 

My Russian log book states this engine has an assigned "service life" or 2250 hours - this is what we would call TBO. It states an "overhaul" each 500 hours. But the translation of the Russian "overhaul" is really what we call an IRAN or Inspect and Replace as Necessary. There are reports of this engine running as a generator for 10's of thousands of hours. The M14 was designed to be run full out in unlimited aerobatics - it's going to last a long time on your Moose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Agree they make some solid equipment but an engine with a 500 hour TBO and general life limit of 2-3 overhauls isn't exactly robust...not compared with the 2000 hour TBO standard of most US engines these days.All that aside, I am a fan of the M14P, great sound and despite short life span, are known for their reliability.

 

Now, you want a hot looking Russian-US aeroplane, check out the Bear360...this is on the top of my wish list! Bear Aircraft

Wow! put me down for one as well Matt, that is a sweet looking ride. Like a mini L39.

 

To understand the 750hr -500 - 500 TBO (Green motor), we have to stop thinking like westerners and start thinking like the old Soviet Union. These aircraft and engines were built by the state in a country where all the money was thrown at the 'mighty military machine' and little else. The people who maintained them were employed by the state run companies and money was not a problem so even entire airframes were stripped rivet by rivet and rebuilt at stupidly low hours. It has noting to do with the robustness of the engine. The same engines in tanks and electrical generators run for over 20,000 hours without an oil change.

 

As well as this, these engine did not run around in a 172 to church on Sundays. They worked hard at max boost (they are supercharged) and max continuous power.

 

Unfortunately for anyone in Australia, we are stuck with the TBO because CASA have determined that because the Russians came up with this TBO, we must abide (Western thinking again). The red motors in the 'W' version Yaks ( and in that Bear), are the same engine painted red and marketed for the western world have a TBO of 1500 hours. Why? because the Russians said that painting the engine red makes them last longer . I wish they just rounded it up to 3000 but then they would be doing themselves out of some work in their newly founded capitalist regime.

 

 

As far as Lyco's and 2000 hr TBOs go, ask Patty Wagstaff if her AEIO540 ever makes TBO....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

No, not even close Maj. The M14P has a planetary reduction gearbox and is fitted with a small air compressor. There is no starter motor (saving weight) and instead uses an air distrubitor and pumps very high pressure air into each cylinder to force the piston down on the correct stroke to rotate the engine for start up. The Russians make such robust and reliable gear. The western world could learn a lot from Russian aviation. The engine comes in 360 hp standard or 400 and 450 suped up. They have won numerous world aerobatic titles with these engines. Here is one pulled out of a friend's Yak and a pic of my old Yak with cowls off. And they sound so sweeeeeeett.

Cloudsuck, I am hoping you don't expect me to accept that the Soviets actually came up with the planetry reduction box, or the air starter ??..I have books that show various models of British radial engines with planetry reductions as early as 1932. The Germans, French, British and Americans all had them pre, and during WW2, and on some very large radial engines too. Italian and French aircraft used air starters prior to WW2.The Soviets have a long reputation for stealing and copying Western aviation equipment, and continue to do so to this day !. As an example the Yak 5,7, and 9 WW2 Fighters all had the direct Merlin copy in them, and they also had a copied version of the Allison V12, which they copied after recieving the Bell Aerocobras. The Mig 15 and 17 had engines which were a direct copy of Sir Frank Whittles' original centrifical compressor jet engine, which in the west became the Goblin and the Nene.

 

And throughout the 60s and 70s they were renown for their direct copies of British Turboprop engines such as the RR Dart, and Trent series engines, which they still use today to power the Bear bombers and large Transports. They admitted once to having a particular liking for the Rolls Royce products !!.

 

And of course as we know, they didn't stop there, they also blaitantly copied whole aircraft , with their copies of the DC-3, B-17, B-29, VC-10 and B 757. And not forgetting of course their attempt at copying the Concorde. Their poor example, which was barely capable of achieving Mach 1, later mostly being delegated to flying night freight, subsonically, to Siberia (the ones that didn't crash that is !!) Even their current day front line fighters (SU-19-27) have many features that came directly from the developments of the F-14,F-15, F-16, and even F-18 aircraft, plus they now have a B1 bomber swing wing copy.

 

They continue to poach the latest Hi-bypass turbine technogology in an attempt to power their less that equetable, so called, modern jetliners.

 

We don't buy surplus Soviet aircraft because they are the best there is, we buy them because they're Cheap, and have been dumped enmass onto western markets during the collapse of the former Soviet Union, and other eastern bloc countrys.

 

Additionally you state that the M14P is SUPERCHARGED !!!.Wow !!....well most of the P&W radials, including the R985 have had integral superchargers since day one, and they been around a lot longer than the low TBO M14P...............

 

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Cloudsuck, I am hoping you don't expect me to accept that the Soviets actually came up with the planetry reduction box, or the air starter ??..

I don't expect you to accept anything! You seem like the kind of guy who will always believe that western is first and best and will forever walk the land with your head in the sand. In wartime, everyone is copying everyone.

 

 

In world aerobatic competition, the Russians were using material in their Sukhoi aircraft like carbon fibre and titanium (no expense spared due to the military machine) while the western world were using tube, wood and fabric. Now have a look at the latest US aerobatic aircraft. This is why they dominated world aerobatic competition for so many years while the western world played catch-up. To date there is still noting like the Sukhoi 26, 29 and 31 aerobatic aircraft and I doubt there ever will be again. Hell, the only other aircraft flying where the foot rests are made of titanium might just be the Space Shuttle...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The Soviets use Titanium liberally simply because they have most of it !!. It is demonstrated in their large Heavy freighters which have it everywhere, it's got nothing to do with their 'military machine'.

 

When they attempted to incorporate 'Western technology' again IE: carbon fiber main spars in the SU-30-31 aerobatic aircraft, they had main spar failures as you will be well aware.

 

Western technology has nothing to prove to me or you, it's history.