What's required ??

[Guest Maj Millard]

What's required to be legal..???

 

Since it appears we could possibly expect a visit from the fun police at some time in the future, and assuming they could be tasked with cost recovery at our expense, whats' required to be legal ??........If the aircraft is parked or hangared you should have some type of throttle lock or anti-theft device fitted. This could be a chain and lock around the prop hub, or a suitable throttle lock. Additionally the RAAus aircraft rego card is to be displayed in a manner that it is visable, from outside the aircraft. Suitable and legal size numbers should be attached in the appropriate places RE: the ops manual. I don't think the aircraft needs to be currently registered unless you are flying or operating it. (It could be stored). I am not aware that CASA or anyone else has the right to enter your aircraft, or remove engine cowls or anything else from your aircraft, although I have witnessed them doing so, without permission, on at least one occassion. I beleive if they are not having a fun (or Lucrutive) day, they can fine you AUD$5000.00 for no throttle/aircraft anti terrorism locking device.

 

Also if you are on a security controlled airport you need to have an ASIC...if not, another AUD$5000.00 fine, or if you have one, but are not displaying it correctly, that'll be AUD$500.00 only, thank you. If asked to produce your RAAus Pilot certificate and can't, that's AUD $5000.00 thanks and this can include being asked by any police officer. Think thats' all......Blow in here, stick this swab in your gob, and have a nice day .....And Oh, if your really cashed up, go and land at Cairns airport unlicensed and unregistered, like our wanker friend did, and that'll only cost you AUD$17,750 . Cheers ...:pig:.:confused:

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Really gives one the insentive to drag ones ass out of bed at 4.30 tow the beastie to mates farm, do a few laps of the back paddock before brekkie. land and get harrassed by some nutter who wants to try and tell me i have one engine to many. (again)

 

 

[Yenn]

The requirements for throttle lock are absolute bull**** and luckily nobody seems to be policing them. My plane complies, but that was because I was tipped off that DOTARS would be at a fly in I went to. I took the trouble to get them to inspect what I did, now I have it word for word tha I comply, but I don't think a wire round the prop is acceptable. they said that someone could remove the prop and replace it to fly. Bloody beaurocrats.

 

 

[dazza 38]

IMO as normal, the knee jerk reactions from the government, for what happen back in 2001. Like the ASIC cards what a load of hog wash.

 

 

[Tomo]

Typical ramp check I'm pretty sure, is ~

 

- Appropriate maps, up to date, and of the area flying over.

 

- POH

 

- fuel/weight planning chart

 

- Flight plan

 

- Weather reports

 

- Pilot Cert

 

- ASIC (if in security zone)

 

- Aircraft Registration card clearly visible and in date!

 

Obviously with only a short local flight you don't need everything like that.

 

 

[Robert]

Whos to blame ????? We the Australian people just sit back and complain but seem to put up with all this beauracratic bull that is forced on us.

 

A quote someone put on this site a while back

 

"CASA has never worked out, that they are there to serve the aviation flying public"

 

This should be modified to

 

"Australian pollies and senior public servants have never worked out they are there to listen to and serve the australian public"

 

Robw

 

 

[eastmeg2]

The requirements for throttle lock are absolute bull**** and luckily nobody seems to be policing them. My plane complies, but that was because I was tipped off that DOTARS would be at a fly in I went to. I took the trouble to get them to inspect what I did, now I have it word for word tha I comply, but I don't think a wire round the prop is acceptable. they said that someone could remove the prop and replace it to fly. Bloody beaurocrats.

I hope you're right about it being bull****.

 

What about trikes, there is no throttle lock design that I've ever heard of, besides the hand throttle could still be operated when the foot throttle is locked. That just leaves the steel cable around the prop and gearbox solution . . . or is turning the key to disable the starter motor circuit and removing the key adequate? Probably not.

 

To me the argument that the fine stands because "someone could remove the prop and replace it to fly" is up there with a cop smashing your tail light with a baton and issuing a fine.:baldy:

 

Where does one stop with this kind of mean argument?:dousing:

 

Removing a prop and replacing it requires knowledge, tools, skills and pre-meditation. With those ingredients there is little anyone can do to stop anyone from flying their aircraft in their absence, short of hiring 24 x 7 security.

 

Something to think about . . .

 

A replacement throttle cable and throttle mechanism are cheaper and easier to carry and fit than a replacement Prop.

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

What about trikes, there is no throttle lock design that I've ever heard of, besides the hand throttle could still be operated when the foot throttle is locked. That just leaves the steel cable around the prop and gearbox solution . . . or is turning the key to disable the starter motor circuit and removing the key adequate? Probably not.

Sometime ago I specifically asked DOTARS about trikes and received the following -

 

"We are aware that aircraft such as yours are very light and that locking devices need to be similarly light. For your aircraft locking devices are only required to be fitted when the aircraft is assembled/configured for flight and unattended. Micro/ultra-light owners with whom staff at this office have spoken have been advised that a length of cable secured by an appropriate padlock to one or more of the controls in such a way as to deter theft is adequate."

 

The assembled/configured clause is pretty handy since trike wings are often dropped onto the basebar when parked outside overnight.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS their emphasis on "deter" not mine

 

 

[storchy neil]

no brain educateded idiots work for cassa put in a complaint about a certain lame l 2 who worked on my plane jesus thanks major know how to get their attention leave the throtle look off neil

 

 

[Al B]

What on earth are you talking about?

 

 

[Tracktop]

Sometime ago I specifically asked DOTARS about trikes and received the following -"We are aware that aircraft such as yours are very light and that locking devices need to be similarly light. For your aircraft locking devices are only required to be fitted when the aircraft is assembled/configured for flight and unattended. Micro/ultra-light owners with whom staff at this office have spoken have been advised that a length of cable secured by an appropriate padlock to one or more of the controls in such a way as to deter theft is adequate."

 

The assembled/configured clause is pretty handy since trike wings are often dropped onto the basebar when parked outside overnight.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS their emphasis on "deter" not mine

One or more of the controls!

 

So some other ideas to lock a trike

 

Does that mean that locking the control bar to the down tube would suffice?

 

or one I like less a lockable fuel tap?

 

or maybe something to lock the nose wheel at full lock might be fairly simple and easy to achieve ?

 

 

[HEON]

Would the 172 I saw a couple of months ago parked missing the complete LH wheel as it had hit a (BIG) bird in flight also require a throttle lock?

 

Probably! some one might just steal it....the law is an ass

 

 

[dazza 38]

Whos to blame ????? We the Australian people just sit back and complain but seem to put up with all this beauracratic bull that is forced on us.A quote someone put on this site a while back

"CASA has never worked out, that they are there to serve the aviation flying public"

 

This should be modified to

 

"Australian pollies and senior public servants have never worked out they are there to listen to and serve the australian public"

 

Robw

Hello Robert, IMO, I dont agree with it, but from what i have read, CASA (this is the way i understand it ) when they serve the 'flying public'. They concentrate on the public fare paying passengers and them getting home safely ie- airlines, RPT and charter. Now this is only my opinion,t but they have to be seen to be "pro-active in security, so nobody here decides to drive to a airfield, hop into the nearest aeroplane and smash it into canberra. The knee jerk reaction with things like 'control locks, ASIC cards etc. Is their way of saying to the general community, Look at us where doing something. I have worked in security here and overseas. I know that the lawsthey have made like control locks etc. are, A- un-policeable (by that i mean, they cannot check evey airfield in the country and it will never stop the threat of terra). B- why use a aeroplane, buses, trucks etc can also do a lot of damage. We have been shafted.ASIC cards are a crock of SH%t. Look at Cooly, you have to have a ASIC card to get airside. But 100 fare paying passengers are on the same tarmac walking to hop on to their scarebus, i mean airbus (sorry). Anyway unless everybody decides not to renew their rip-off, i mean ASIC card, their wont be change, same for control locks. Cheers

 

 

[Spriteah]

Throttle lock.. LOL

 

Here is an Idea. Cut it, snap it, do what ever and it will go to full throttle.

 

Im guessing a terrorist will want full throttle for their endeavours.

 

Jim

 

 

[Tomo]

Anyway unless everybody decides not to renew their rip-off, i mean ASIC card, their wont be change, same for control locks. Cheers

Very true... we can winge all we like but It ain't gonna do anything unfortunately...

 

I now look at it, either we can all walk around annoyed to bits about the whole thing, or just comply with it and enjoy ourselves doing what "They" want us to do. You end up a lot friendlier to!

 

Concerning the ASIC card, $160 bucks every two yrs, not tooooo bad considering some other things these days.

 

It just things like this we're gonna have to grin and bear when in this strange industry... But then again it's with every type of industry, the amount of 'stuff' you gotta go through these days is incredible really.

 

 

[Robert]

"Concerning the ASIC card, $160 bucks every two yrs, not tooooo bad considering some other things these days."

 

Its not only $160 bucks for the ASIC card (which I most proberly need but most proberly wont need) but the $160 bucks for everything else I need

 

Look at the way the RAAus is going now we got endosments for everything they can think of not to mention everything else with the path they are heading down

 

How long before it is the same as GA flying with the same costs and demise like GA.

 

It will soon be time to bring back an AUF type organization and get back to basic simple and inexspensive flying. Can anyone remember 9510

 

Well thats what got the RAAus where it is today. If it tried to start of with the exspensive aircraft it is promoting today it would never have got going!!!!

 

As for beauracrats, can anyone honestly tell me that they think anything though these days and not take the quick answers on board.

 

My gripe for today (blood pressure now up a bit having mentioned beauracrats)

 

Cheers all

 

 

[Matt]

As someone mentioned in another thread, I believe the one about the Gympie dinner with John M from CASA, many of the things here being flagged as CASA's doings are in fact nothing to do with them i.e. ASICs, Security etc. That'd be the department responsible for aviation policy...being DOTARs. CASA are solely responsible for aviation SAFETY.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

[quote=Robert;139707

 

How long before it is the same as GA flying with the same costs and demise like GA.

 

It will soon be time to bring back an AUF type organization and get back to basic simple and inexspensive flying. Can anyone remember 9510

 

Cheers all

 

Oui , i'm over here!!! hope you don't mind if i've started without you

 

Ozzie

 

 

[turboplanner]

There are locking devices for push bikes, even locking devices for 4WD Jerry Cans and Axes. There wouldn't be a town in Australia where someone couldn't come up with a quick and easy solution.

 

If you want credibility, throttle locks aren't a good subject to bash CASA on

 

 

[dazza 38]

As someone mentioned in another thread, I believe the one about the Gympie dinner with John M from CASA, many of the things here being flagged as CASA's doings are in fact nothing to do with them i.e. ASICs, Security etc. That'd be the department responsible for aviation policy...being DOTARs. CASA are solely responsible for aviation SAFETY.

Hi matt, your right, ASIC wasnt the idea of CASA, it was the governments, the same as anti -theft locks. I think. I would like if CASA, if they could ask the government, why do they have to be installed, i will re- phrase that (why dont people have a choice weather they would like to have it installed or not ). I mean not everybody can just drive down to their local airport, hotwire a cessna and take it for a spin. If your a/c is hangared or outside parked, for days at a time,it would be a excellent idea to a control lock/ throttle lock , pedal lock which ever you chose. What im concerned about, is if some one went to a fly-in or similar or you just went and visited another airfield, you are their for 20 minutes or so, and then, old mate comes up and fines you because your a/c is not secured. Im not saying that would happen, but it might. The ASIC card, well, as mentioned by other people, why dont we just use our pilot certificate, in a ID holder, and clip that to our clothes in clear view. I know its a bit hard with the GA licence book, so maybe that could be changed to a card like a drivers licence. The ASIC renewal every two years, to me is a bit of a hassell, my reasoning is, is that you have to give them all the information, again and again etc. Most people wouldnt change that much in two years, i mean you wouldnt wake up one day and go, nice day to smash into a building.They should have everybodies information in the system., apart from the first issue. It would probably be easier if every one went to their local police station, and got their criminal record, if they have one and fax it off every two years to the powers that be. All the military guys know what i mean about security vetting. I mean it takes a LONG time to gather all the information that is needed on yourself and everybody else (family, partners, husbands wifes etc). Then years down the track if your security clearence is up graded, you have to go through the whole thing again. Note- make copies. Sorry for being long winded see yah

 

 

[Yenn]

What are these higher costs of GA flying. As far as I know there is no annual registration, no annual membership fees. There is tha ASIC which is only needed at security or whatever they call them aerodromes, and the costs of a LAME for maintenance. I believe if you homebuild your own you can also do the maintenance.

 

For those of us who have a PPL the costs are not so bad.

 

 

[Matt]

I'm with you Yenn, RA-Aus can be expensive if you go and buy yourself a $150K aeroplane, GA can be inexpensive if you home build yourself a Corby or similar and in the EXPERIMENTAL category you (as the builder) can perform all your own maintenance.

 

As with anything in life, we make choices (sounds like something I've mentioned before...) you can choose RA-Aus and a "classic rag and tube" ultralight, never fly in to an airfield that requires an ASIC and do your own maintenance and that'd be pretty inexpensive, but still pay membership, registration etc. You could chose to buy a $150K fully optioned Sportstar/Tecnam etc. base yourself at an airfield requiring an ASIC, security etc. and that's at the other extreme. You can chose to make GA or RA-Aus as expensive or inexpensive as you want.

 

At the end of the day, a couple of hundred bucks a year in "administrative fees" (whether you believe they're necessary or not) is reasonable to enjoy the freedom of flight. You pay more than that to be constrained on the ground in your car.

 

 

[facthunter]

Value.

 

The Insurance that all members get and the mag. with RAA is easily worth the annual fees on their own. nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Dead right Facthunter. I had forgotten the insurance. That has got to be worth a lot.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Careful what you say Yenn, the insurance provider might be reading . . .