Landing

[DarkSarcasm]

.PS: The Ray Bans was a wild guess.

:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest taildragger]

Darky - Try to find someone with the Flight Sim games on a PC. You'd be amazed how you can relate flying sims to the real thing. Most Gen Y students get the hang of the "picture" in landing phase early in their training because of the PC interaction. Try it !!!!!!

 

 

[Guest check-in]

Another tip which I forgot. When you do the focus on the wingtip bit, that distance (approx half the wingspan) is roughly the distance above the ground to COMMENCE the flare. That's about where you start to come into ground effect. Holding off too high is a common and potentially very dangerous habit. If you stall at 20 ft and a wing drops, it won't be pretty. So the idea is to flare only enough initially to arrest the sink (flare is being aided by ground effect; therefore if you flare too agressively you get the 'balloon' as the two combine). However you must continue down a bit further to hold off just above the ground. By 'just above' I suggest initially about 2 ft; hence the exercise flying down the runway to learn what 2 ft off the grass or tarmac feels and looks like.

 

So....... it's flare at height about half the wingspan, let it settle a bit, then hold-off by simply flying level with the ground (but very close to the ground) raising the nose incrementally as the speed washes off and the sink pulls you down from 2 ft to the ground. As you get better you will find yourself in the hold-off at 1 ft; then you are on the way to that first greaser landing.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Facthunter, as usual is right.

 

Don't disagree with you check-in, but for anyone wanting tp practice this I'd strongly recommend an instructor sitting beside you who can see any mistake emertging and keep you right side up.

 

 

[Guest check-in]

Turboplanner, my post #54, 1st dot point says exactly that. Maybe buried in too much information? In which case I will cease and desist.

 

 

[Tomo]

Hey Darky!

 

Do you leave your arm resting on the arm rest while coming in to land??

 

Might sound like a silly question, but I just discovered that I was doing that the other day, and since then life has been a lot easier... Resting the arm on the rest, and holding the stick limits quick backward movement, so everything just isn't as nice as it could be...

 

Try holding the top of the stick (practice it on the ground!) and getting comfortable and full movements happening from centre to all the way back...

 

 

[metanoia]

I'm having quite a deal of hassle with landings as well.

 

It hasn't helped that every time i've flown recently, the weather has made landings tricky - crosswinds almost at the limit of the Jabiru, and crazy thermals and whatnot.

 

What I want is to get some experience landing in benign weather, then deal with the complexities that nasty crosswinds and thermals and such throw at one.

 

 

[BecM]

Landings, the non-optional part of flying.

 

I had trouble mainly because of the weather, crosswinds, thermals, rain, etc etc.

 

BUT now I feel well equiped.

 

I agree with Tomo I use the arm on the armrest to guide myself, I look down the run way to get a sense of hight.

 

But all in all it just came together. You just have to relax. (Easier said than done)

 

Oh yeah by the way, you'll nail your landings until solo, about the second or third one you seem to completely forget how to do it again :)

 

Fly safe

 

Bec

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I seem to have suddenly gotten better at them and I've no idea why...I suddenly seem to be flaring at the right time (well closer to the right time) and I don't know what's changed, I think I'm doing it by feel so I'm slightly worried that if I get stressed or whatever it'll fall apart because I'm not really sure why it's working...does that make any sense? :confused:

 

 

[dazza 38]

HI Darky, well done,

 

 

[flying dog]

What REALLY helped me with landings is flying a different plane for a while.

 

OK, I'll shut up now.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I seem to have suddenly gotten better at them and I've no idea why...I suddenly seem to be flaring at the right time (well closer to the right time) and I don't know what's changed, I think I'm doing it by feel so I'm slightly worried that if I get stressed or whatever it'll fall apart because I'm not really sure why it's working...does that make any sense? :confused:

We told you Darky, we said you were doing well and about par for the hours, and so it was, so it's just a matter of more of the same, and not running over gutters in the Soarer.l

 

 

[Guest vhinov]

I am learning landings as well. It has been awhile. I feel the same way besides I am not as inpatient due to me age :-) Last time my instructor told me. I do not know what you did there but try to do it every time. This is what the landing needs to be. He even called it squeacky :-)) Since then I have been thinking what exactly I have done that have made it wright. I did 3 good landings then. All 3 times I was "feeling" the weight of the a/c. I guess it was a combination of visual, possitional and pulling on the yoke pressure on the hand type of feeling. It felt like I new exactly how haevy the plane is and was able to keep it above the runway not allowing it to sink or baloon. Or as they say "Just do not let it land as long as you can" I hope this helps. Wish you Marry Christmass and Happy New year!

 

 

[flying dog]

"Darky",

 

Something else which may help you.

 

Sit in the plane and get the instructor to go to the back of the plane and push down as far as it will go.

 

This helps you get a better idea of what the limits of the plane are for pitch when landing.

 

I used to worry about scraping the tail on the ground so would go in flat. One day my instructor did what I said and it too helped me get an appreciation for how far back on the stick I could go before doing any damage.

 

All the best.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Out of curiosity, do you guys consciously decide when to flare or do you do it by feel? I think I've started doing it 'by feel' (which is working, so I'm not going to change it), I don't consciously think "ok we're at this height, time to flare" I just sort of feel like it is time to flare so I do (and it seems to be working, nearly all unassisted landings now :big_grin:)

 

Perhaps I was overthinking things earlier (looking for too many cues) and this is how it's supposed to be?

 

But yeah, just out of curiosity, conscious decision or flaring 'by feel'?

 

 

[flying dog]

Darky,

 

I think you have the right answer now. Good luck.

 

"Just do it". <wink>

 

 

[Tomo]

Both I think!

 

 

[facthunter]

Feel?

 

Not intending to be "picky", but perhaps feel is not the right concept. If you could not see the ground you would fly right through it, and keep on descending.

 

The reason you don't do this is because your eyes have told you that you are at a point where you should be doing something about arresting the sink rate. (stopping the thing hitting the ground). The commencement of the flare is an action primarily in response to what your eyes tell you. How you react to the picture is related to your ability to "Judge" what your plane is doing and what it will do when you modify its flight(approach ) path, principally with the elevators, though you must still point it. You have been through a learning process where you have a certain amount of experience and in the light of that experience, become more proficient in your JUDGEMENT. You gain knowledge of "what works", and often what doesn't quite work. Experience (learning) modifies behaviour (action).. This may help how you feel about it. There is no "numbers" approach to landing, that really works. Judgement allows you to take on board all the factors (sink rate, airspeed (don't look at it while landing, below about 150') power reduction just as wheels touch etc. Judgement all the way. This is the art of flying. Don't rush it. Nev

 

 

[flying dog]

Facthunter,

 

Please lay off her a bit.

 

I don't know how many hours she has and maybe can't express the feelings as good as we would like.

 

I kind of remember how it was when I was learning and did my first solo.

 

It was both elation and pant-dirtying-time at the same time.

 

If she "Feels" it, then so be it. It works - obviously - for her. After a few more of these "feelings" she may be able to better discribe it and we can help her get even better.

 

People learn better/quicker with positive re-enforcement rather than put downs and critacisums.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Flying Dog.

 

Please read facthunter's post again.

 

I think you'll find Nev doesn't do put-downs.

 

We'll let Darky take from it what she will. It seemed like a good piece of information to me.

 

 

[Yenn]

I definitely look for the point to flare and then use feel to keep the pressure on the elevator and eye to keep the height. It often results in a little balloon which needs release of stick pressure and then an even greater back stick as the speed falls away.

 

No doubt every plane is different and the Jab I believe has a tendency to float, but will bite if the nose wheel is allowed to contact first.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

It probably is my eyes telling me what to do and my judgment improving etc, but right now I would describe it as 'feel' - so even though it is my eyes telling me what to do etc, it doesn't seem like that right now when I'm doing it, so the way I describe it is 'feel'. I was trying to differentiate it from consciously deciding when to flare - like, thinking that 'ok I'm X ft above the ground and that tree is in the same place on the windscreen as usual, time to flare' (or something similar), rather I just sort of unconciously know (or think I do) that it's time to flare.

 

I guess everyone would describe what they do/think a bit differently, so it's hard to put down what I mean (I know what I mean when I say things, but it doesn't mean that others get the same meaning from it I do!)

 

All the responses are helpful, thanks all :)

 

Btw, I'm at 25.6 hours now.

 

 

[Neville75]

Hey Darky, you're a veteran compared to me! I've only got 14 hrs and am still at the "gee the grounds getting close now, if you don't start rounding out now you're gonna crash" stage. Usually accompanied by the whoops held off too much, argh floated, bugger - stuffed that one up feeling.

 

Glad to hear your getting the hang of it, gives me hope that I'm not the only one struggling to get consistency, and that with more practice it will become easier.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Usually accompanied by the whoops held off too much, argh floated, bugger - stuffed that one up feeling.

I've done that SO many times, usually accompanied by various swearwords! But it all (seems) to have clicked (at least a bit) now so I, in all my infinite wisdom and advanced hours () can say, you'll get there :)

 

and that with more practice it will become easier.

My FI told me "everyone learns by f-ing up" and it was far far better to make all sorts of mistakes with him there to show me how to fix them than alone. So just remember, it's all good experience. I've bounced so many times, I've become pretty dab at correcting them now!

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Darky, just out of curiosity, how many of those 25 hours are circuits?