Gliders at Caboolture

[wags]

Qwerty... why do the glider operations at Caboolture always seem to be on a different runway to the active and more often than not in an opposing direction?

 

That's one question we missed on Saturday but should have asked.

 

We have a similar problem at Gympie... they set up for one runway then when the wind changes 180º they are now operating against the traffic pattern - generally without making radio calls too!

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

Beats me. I'm from Tas and was a bit overwhelmed by Caboolture. I not a pussy but to walk into that was a bit daunting with total, 100% full on radio chatter with absolutely everything in the air at once and I mean everything, except for may be weather balloons, and they were probably there too. Then the bloody idiot glider pilots took the cake. They would have to be THE most inconsiderate bunch of it has been my misfortune to encounter anywhere. They were worse than a kindergarten in a ritalin drought.

 

I want to do some gliding but it will not be at Caboolture that is for certain.

 

 

[Al B]

Hrm, as a former glider pilot of Caboolture, perhaps I can suggest a few reasons why the gliders seem so chaotic:

 

1) A LOT of training goes on at the caboolture club - there are many student pilots under pressure. I'd suggest that learning to land in a glider is far more stressful than learning in power. Screw up a power approah and you go around. Screw up a glider landing and the instructor takes over, then you probably have to wait an hour for another flight.

 

2) Glider circuits are much faster then power circuits. Often there simply is no point making a 'turning base' radio call, as the aircraft will soon be on final.

 

Combine 1 and 2 and the 'Aviate' part of 'Aviate, Navigate, Communicate' becomes much more important

 

Please realise that your average glider pilot doesn't decide at runway is being used. The instructors do that - the students and other pilots just do what they say. If the gliders use the wrong runway because it's too much work to move the pie cart then it's only the fault of a few people, not the whole operation.

 

Honestly the best thing to do is write a polite email to the club, or walk over and make a suggestion to the instructors. The caboolture club doesn't want a bad reputation.

 

 

[dazza 38]

We at Boonah, mix it with gliders all weekend, every weekend, IMO we seem to fit in well together. Sometime times they will land at the opposite end of the active runway.(we only have one runway), but only if they have to due to lack of height and it doesnt happen all that often.No problem, radio calls generaly are spot on. We just adjust for them. I mean we have engines they dont. WE have to give way to them. Having said that they dont go cutting us off or anything. Cheers

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

I actually stopped flying for several hours because of the chaos. I am not kidding about everything in the air. There was, RAAus training, GA circuits, parachutes, gliders, choppers, warbirds, there were curcits, test flights, low passes, canopies everywhere and gliders allover the place landing with no apparent pattern, or reason and what was particularly un-nerving is that a couple of them landed by flying under me and then stopping in the middle of the strip instead of using some of their momentum to taxi off the strip which would be easy on those strips. I was cut off a couple of times too. not that any of this is neccessarily a problem but the mongrels simply would not use the radio. A quick heads up would be nice in preferance to being ambushed, and I know they had radios because they did use them from time to time unfortunately not in the circuit.

 

 

[Al B]

Glider pilots at Caboolture are specifically taught NOT to taxi off the runway. I suggest you email the CFI if you think that policy should be changed.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I hope there weren't any more than six in the circuit, or they'd have to go out and hold somewhere until someone built a Tower, and staffed it.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

I don't know anyting much about gliding but it seemed to me that it was extrodinarily inconsiderate to take up the runway for 10 minutes while a car drove down the strip and towed the gliders all the way back to the threshold when there were millions of aircraft in the circuit all going round and round till the glider was out of the way.

 

Turbo, 6 in each leg of the circuit would have been a welcome relief from the chaos.

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi guys, at boonah the instructor and student, or pilot passenger get out straight away and push the glider out of the way, to the side of ther runway. Their quite efficent of this i have been on base a few times, and they have got the glider out of the way well before late final. Maybe Caboolture could do the same thing ?

 

 

[jetjr]

yeah, Gliders pose issues at places I spend time too, circuts change to Contra as soon as they decide to fly, One radio call per lauch and land from the tug

 

No calls at all from gliders inbound, Sometimes unreadable using localities no one know about, height in meters and distances in Km, Using downwind runway, when using CTAF, constant conversation - but still no inbound calls, flat batteries causing feedback into radios

 

RPT traffic overflying are seriously concerned of hitting one, 2 or three overflying calls with no response, but a series of gliders descending into airfield from height and direction Saab is flying through.

 

Ive had them turn onto final right infront of me from dead side, (calling downwind behind me), others land beside me on grass strip then roll accross infront of me to the other side of strip whilst Im trying to brake and slow down

 

Annoying part is many of these guys are very accomplished pilots.

 

In hangers - dont get me started

 

Inconsiderate is an understatement. To be fair, local regulars are mostly OK and do try, mainly visitors seem to be the problem. City attitudes at small towns usually doesnt work well

 

 

[HEON]

I fly out of Warwick and we get along with gliders and their tugs very well with a bit of give and take by all.

 

I did my initial flight training at Cabulture and found the gliding family there the most inconsiderate pig headed group of people I have ever had the misfortune to come in contact with. I see they have not changed.

 

 

[Exadios]

Qwerty... why do the glider operations at Caboolture always seem to be on a different runway to the active and more often than not in an opposing direction? That's one question we missed on Saturday but should have asked.

We have a similar problem at Gympie... they set up for one runway then when the wind changes 180º they are now operating against the traffic pattern - generally without making radio calls too!

I do not know anything about the gliding operation at Caboolture but, in general, most glider pilots operate under the control of a "duty instructor". You may wish to have a word with him or her.

 

When you talk of the "active" runway who is deciding which one that is. Gliders are more sensitive to cross and tail winds than powered aircraft. I would be very suprised to learn that a duty or tug pilot would allow cross / tail wind operations to continue - especially with sudents involved.

 

 

[shags_j]

Yeah imagine what the place will be like if tehy shut down another airport (like Caloundra). Brisbane needs an RA airport on the southside of town. That would ease the pressure on Caboolture and redcliffe and make things safer for everyone.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

I might have struck the gliders on the wrong day. It was all working OK, very hectic but OK apart from glider pilots basically being inconsiderate. They were acting legally by taking their right of way and thats fine but they just seemd to me to be arrogant, ignorant and inconsiderate. I might be being a bit sensitive but I doubt it, I have never neen accused of being too sensitive before. In fact I am told that I have a hide like a rhinoceros over an ego that doesn't need it.

 

 

[winsor68]

Yeah imagine what the place will be like if tehy shut down another airport (like Caloundra). Brisbane needs an RA airport on the southside of town. That would ease the pressure on Caboolture and redcliffe and make things safer for everyone.

I think Australia needs lots of new RA airports just about everywhere...

 

 

[Relfy]

At Kingaroy the glider mob are great people and we get along really well with them. I guesss that Kingaroy is set up well for glider ops with a nice grass 34L & 16R strip for them to use, which leaves the main strip for use at the same time. I found in training, and it was stressed to me constantly, to keep and eye out for traffic because some days there were 10-15 gliders around the place.

 

It sounds like someone should meet with the Caboolture rep for the gliding club there and get some discussion going to help everyone use the facility more efficiently. Perhaps a rep for RAA could be involved?

 

 

[Admin]

It sounds like someone should meet with the Caboolture rep for the gliding club there and get some discussion going to help everyone use the facility more efficiently. Perhaps a rep for RAA could be involved?

I have forwarded this post on to Nick Sigley who is the RAA Board rep around there.

 

 

[shags_j]

Great idea. Foster a bit of understanding between the two groups. Admittedly I have never been flying while they are needing to land etc. however I have watched a few incidents and wondered that there hasn't been a crash yet.

 

 

[Al B]

I've never had a problem with a glider at caboolture - however I've flown them before, so know what a circuit is like from their point of view.

 

The glider tug, on the other hand...

 

 

[shags_j]

Yeah he likes to get um up as quick as he can...

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I'm not sure that Nick can really be expected to get involved given the number of aircraft which are nothing to do with RAAus.

 

If anyone has an issue or wants to discuss operations I would suggest that the Caboolture Aero Club is the correct starting point. They are the operators of the airfield & the committee has members from many of the various flying disciplines (incidentally this now includes the CFI from which several of you rent aircraft).

 

Contact details are here - The Committee

 

John

 

 

[Guest Pabloako]

I have never really had any issues with gliders at Caboolture.

 

The main thing that bugs me are the GA aircraft that make their downwind leg extend half way to Kingaroy (Slight exaggeration, but you get my point) and their base leg ends up being made at 400 feet. They are a real pain to see.

 

 

[Relfy]

John, great to see that you have the contacts for the right people to get involved. It sounds like an issue that can be worked on and given that a lot of other fields work in together well, then something can surely be done to help everyone out. Obviously this will only be coordinated with everyone working together with each other.

 

The tug at Kingaroy, or the camel as it is known, is up and down very quickly and works in with us when we're circuit bashing also. Everyone who flies the tug makes all the right radio calls and with the local airfield rules (see ersa) governing glider ops, it all works well.

 

At the end of the day, we all love aviation and just want to do as much of it as possible! :thumb_up:

 

 

[Exadios]

I've never had a problem with a glider at caboolture - however I've flown them before, so know what a circuit is like from their point of view.The glider tug, on the other hand...

All glider pilots and most power pilots (I know) are taught the following rule: When you join downwind for a particular strip you are committed to land on that strip. In the case of power aircraft this includes the case when engine failure occurs. So they fly the circuit with this in mind. And a tug engine failure is more than a theoretical possibility.

 

I often watch power planes that, when they join the circuit, they are specks in the sky. What they are doing way out there I cannot tell but one thing I do know - if the engine stops they have no hope of making the landing strip.

 

 

[shags_j]

Nothing like an instructor pulling power off when you are a bit out on downwind and you realise you are too far too make it back to the strip. I swear first time he did that to me my next circuit was half the distance ;)