About to buy a Jabiru....maybe

[Dover]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm Ben and i'm very close to ordering a new factory built J170. I've never owned a plane before so it's all a bit daunting (do i really wanna rack up that much debt??) although i've done a great deal of research so i guess nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

I started flying in a drifter then a tomahawk and then a few Cessna 172's and have a non-current PPL although i still am a low hours pilot so i'm hoping the purchase of a jabiru could be a good option in the long run for getting a few hours in the logbook and doing some touring around this great country. This site seems fantastic for gaining knowledge and getting info so i look fwd to chatting to you all. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated......

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

Gday Ben, welcome. I like the 170 on paper, I haven't had an opportunity to fly one yet though. You pretty much cant go wrong with a Jab, I'm happy with mine. Go for it mate, what else are you going to do, sit at home and wish you had an aeroplane???

 

Cheers, Qwerty

 

 

[Dover]

Thanks Qwerty. Yeah that's what i reckon. Take the plunge and don't die wondering!

 

I'm glad to hear you're happy with your Jabiru. It's seems like the majority of Jabiru owners are very happy with their aircraft which is reassuring. I went up to Bundaberg last week and was pretty happy with everything after looking around the Jabiru factory etc. Will have to wait and see how it all pans out.......

 

 

[skydog]

BenDover,

 

Thats a good one Ben.

 

Just dont rush into any purchase thats my advice. Try and fly as many planes as possible of similar like and price range then make your decision.

 

Jabs are the best value plane around new, thats for sure.

 

You cant take it with you so take it

 

 

[Dover]

Thanks Skydog. Yeah i got the nickname of Dover when i was 19. Over the years i've convinced some people my last name is actually Dover and my parents were just trying to be funny....

 

Anyway, good advice on trying out a few different planes. I must admit i haven't done a great deal of that because, as you say, the Jabiru seems quite a good package for its price and it seems to fill all the requirements i have. Plus the fact that it's a Queensland/Australian product so any parts (if required) hopefully wouldn't be too hard to source. The J170 is about the limit of my budget at present so another 10 or 15k might be just a bit too much for some of the other aircraft around. Thought it might be a good one to start out with and maybe down the track upgrade to something a bit quicker with a few more bells and whistles!

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Dover, i live at Robina, if you want to come over for a chat, about planes or anything, just PM me i will give you my address. PS- finding hangars here is as rare as rocking horse S*%&T. How are you going with that etc. Cheers

 

 

[Dover]

Thanks for your post Kev. You make some very good points which indeed put things into perspective. Glad to hear your 170 is going well and i too feel it's the perfect compromise. Cheers for the estimated running costs too. That's a great help. I'm sure you'll be a wealth of knowledge to me......

 

 

[Dover]

Hey Dazza. Mate you're not wrong there about the hanger space! Thanks for your offer of a chat and some guidance. I'll drop you a line and hopefully we can catch up.

 

Cheers mate,

 

Ben

 

 

[Keith]

G'day Ben,

 

I bought a 170 earlier this year after having learnt in a ULD. I contemplated both the 120 and the 230, which both came highly recommended. I went for the 170 because:

 

a) it had the handling characteristics closest to what I learnt in (I understand this is a common bias!)

 

b) compared to the 120 it has a lower stall speed plus more fuel in wet wings, both which seemed to me to offer an increased safety margin (but this is open to debate)

 

c) compared to the 230 it has the 4 cylinder engine which has 2 fewer cylinders for a novice like me to worry about, is a bit cheaper to run, and a bit cheaper to buy.

 

I'm very happy with the 170. I am still in the process of getting to know it, but the process is a real pleasure. The initial challenge was on handover at Bundy where the standard technique was demonstrated as landing with full flaps - even in gusty (for me) x-winds. I found the plane's big wings a bit of a handful under these conditions, so now (after consulting my CFI) my SOP is to use 1 stage of flap in x-wind landings. This makes it feel a lot safer and more controllable to me, however once I get a bit more experience it may be that my envelope for using full flaps will expand. (Note: other threads in this formum talk about the 170 having too much float on landing with anything less than full flaps. I think with proper speed control over the fence it's manageable.)

 

So the 170 was the way I went, and it has turned out well so far. That's not to say that I wouldn't have been equally as happy with a 120 or 230 - I haven't had the time or experience to really properly assess the alternatives. Other non-Jabiru aircraft I find very compelling (on paper) were the Cheetah from Morgan Aeroworks, and the Flysynthesis Storch, but there just weren't enough people up my way with direct experiece of them to go to for advice.

 

So many aircaft, so little time!

 

Anyway Ben, good luck with the decision process.

 

K

 

 

[eastmeg2]

I'm curious about the MTOW of the J170 as some parts of the Jabiru website say it's 540kg for kit built and 600kg for factory built.

 

Is that really the case? Or does it have something to do with the introduction of the increasing of MTOW from 544kg to 600kg by CASA/RAA and has that happened yet. Rather confusing.

 

 

[Friarpuk]

G'day mate

 

It sure is daunting. I love the jab hulls but am not too sure about their engines. I would love a Jab with a Rotax.

 

I just find that there are too many Jabs on the market with 600 hours on the dial. I always wondered why. Or they have 1200 tt and a 600 hour engine for sale. Seems from what I've heard the cylinders can't handle the heat variation and the engines start using too much oil after a certain amount of time.

 

I previously trained in a 160 and a 230 and I loved them both to fly, but they are currently been pulled from training as they both clocked up about 600 hours and then needed to be rebuilt. For me that's not very good value for money, and it seems that Jabiru have not done much to change this relatively short engine life of it's motor.

 

I have gone for a Rotax motor in a Skyranger I am building myself. I would encourage you to look at as many planes as possible, and note how many of them have gone for the Rotax engine. For me that says something! There are also sites on the net that assist with maintainence for the rotax. Such as rotax-owners.com

 

When I fly Jabiru's I would rather hire and fly someone else's plane and not have to worry about the long term viability of the engine. At least then I only have to worry about the engine while I'm flying.

 

FWIW

 

 

[facthunter]

600 Kg Jab.

 

That would be if it was classified under LSA wouldn't it? This is a complex classification with strict rules on mods and maintenance. Nev

 

 

[GraemeK]

AFAIK, the YLIL J160's have all run to 1000hr before engine change as a matter of course. And they get some pretty rough treatment (speaking for myself, at least ).

 

 

[eastmeg2]

That would be if it was classified under LSA wouldn't it? This is a complex classification with strict rules on mods and maintenance. Nev

Nope.

 

RAA was supposed to be getting 600kg in lieu of 760kg and without having to register as LSA for that MTOW. Am yet to see any confirmation of that coming into force, or when it will.

 

 

[Dover]

Thanks for your posts Keith & Friarpuk. Hey Keith, did you go with the Jabiru supplied Garmin 495 GPS? If so, do you recommend it? Also, which option insrument panel did you go with and now that you've done some flying in it are you happy with your choice? I know panel's are very much a personal preference thing but i'd be interested to hear your comments all the same......

 

 

[Keith]

Thanks for your posts Keith & Friarpuk. Hey Keith, did you go with the Jabiru supplied Garmin 495 GPS? If so, do you recommend it? Also, which option insrument panel did you go with and now that you've done some flying in it are you happy with your choice? I know panel's are very much a personal preference thing but i'd be interested to hear your comments all the same......

Ben,

 

I did get the 495, but via Ian rather than Jabiru. Clear Prop kindly mailed it to Jabiru and they installed it. I have had other Garmin GPSs, so the familiarity of the interface was a bonus. The screen is good, the database pretty good, and it seems as bug-free as the other Garmins I've owned. The only annoyance is the panel mount, which I think is a bit fiddly to insert and extract the GPS from.

 

I went for steam guages (ie traditional analog) instruments in the panel. I considered putting in the engine management option, however other local pilots have experienced long turn-arounds when glass cockpit units have failed - so I decided to keep it simple. The only change I had made to the standard panel was to put in an ICOM radio, with a slot below it for a matching transponder - when I get around to putting one in. (I think the standard units supplied by Jabiru are good, and I've heard the service is excellent, however the ICOMs have larger, clearer displays which I prefer.) Other options I took up were a keyed ignition and tail strobe.

 

So far I'm very happy with the purchase - I think it's about right for me with my training history and (low) level of experience. A big plus is the presence of some experienced pilots with similar Jabirus in the area that I can go to for advice. I've had no real problems with the plane so far, only that she has a foible of flying about half a ball out to the right (which comes with the territory, I'm told). That may become a bit of an annoyance on longer flights, so I'll have to get around to sorting it out one day.

 

I found there were some thoughtful, helpful discussions in these fora when I was trying to make up my mind about buying a Jabiru, and deciding between the models. In particular, MozartMerv has described his experience with the shorter-winged 160 during summer, while others have commented on the 170s propensity for excessive float on landing. (I reckon Donkey is correct about how to handle the latter, but if you're going to do a lot of short-field work then you should look into this further.) Another piece of advice was to treat the nose wheel like it's made out of glass ie keep the weight off it on takeoff and landing as much as possible - it helps no end with the steering.

 

Cheers,

 

K

 

 

[David F]

Hi Ben

 

Sounds like your mind is made up but I would advise you to take a look at all the options.Ie Foxbat Flysynthesis Storch (the clipped wing version with the 100 hp Rotax is the go ) When I was decieding what to buy I did not want a Jab but I had a fly in one anyway.I wanted an aircraft that I could operate out of small strips with a geared prop and good fuel capacity I went for a Savannah and have been very happy with it mine is a kit built but you can get them factory made now.As well as buying the aircraft look at the resale values and how many are for sale you want to protect your investment.

 

Good Luck Dave

 

 

[J170 Owner]

Hi. I bought a brand new J170 in October and flew int back to Gawler, South Australia (see kleb - welcome ) for info. I have no regrets and my bank balance is still increasing!

 

 

[brilin_air]

Ben just a couple of small questions.

 

Have you actually been up and had a fly in a 170?

 

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the 120, with it being a bit smaller than the 170. Is there a reason why you want the bigger plane compared to the smaller one?

 

We have a 160 are more than happy with it, and it is big enough for the 2 of us AND any gear we take away.

 

-Linda

 

 

[brilin_air]

Linda, I am not too sure that you understand the J170 configuration ( If I am wrong here I apologise) .. It has the same fuselage as the J160, but is fitted out with the wings from a J230. It is the longer wingspan that affords the extra lift and therefore weight carrying capacity, with the range and economy of the J160.

Kev

Kev,

 

Yes I am aware of the configuration of the 170, very much so.

 

Just to clarify this, the question that I asked was why Ben wants to go for a heavier, longer winged plane, and only helping by suggesting maybe trying the 120 as an alternative.

 

I have 2 very good friends who both have a 170, 200 and a 230 and I do know all about the pros and cons with all 3 of these. :big_grin:

 

-Linda.

 

 

[ben87r]

Ben any result? will be looking at getting a 170 my self by the end of the year although a "pre loved"

 

 

[Dieselten]

I've flown the 170 a little and own a 160, so I can speak for both. The biggest difference I found was the 170 tends to yaw significantly in turbulence, the 160 far less so, if at all. I land both with half-flap only, and in a strong crosswind use progressively less flap as the crosswind component increases. Under normal conditions the 160 flies a very nice approach at 70KIAS, the 160 seems better-behaved at 65KIAS, similar to the 230. You can fly a J160 on at no flap and 80 knots if the crosswind is very strong.

 

Interestingly, the 170 does cruise nicely at 100KIAS, in spite of the longer and therefore "draggier" wing. It will lift off when heavy quicker than any other Jabiru I know of. The only down-side I can think of is the longer wings may be a problem if you're in a shared hangar.

 

You'll do all right with a 170, and it's quite a bit cheaper than the 230, but if the choice were mine and I wanted the longer wing I'd actually go for the 230. However, my 160 does everything I need it to do. The factory support and spares availability is excellent, and the airframes are very low maintenance. You'll be putting the spanners to the engine fairly frequently, but they are an easy engine to work on.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Hey Dover my J120- 1Y.O is for sale- check it in classifieds- I flew them all and IMHO is the best "flyer" of them all. Cross grading to a tail dragger to run in our flying school- my jab is private use only.