Authorised Landing Area

[pudestcon]

How does an airfield become an Aircraft Landing Area (ALA) and published in ERSA?

 

Pud

 

 

[planedriver]

Good post David, we learn somthing new every day.

 

Rgds Planey

 

 

[pudestcon]

Thanks David,

 

Your post is very informative and answers most of my questions. The question came about because a landing field in a small WA wheatbelt town of Koorda is not described as an ALA although all the small town airstrips around Koorda are classified as ALAs. Towns such as Wyalkatchem (YWKM), Bencubbin (YBCB), Beacon (YBEC), Kalannie (YKAE) and Dowerin (YDON). Even Goomalling (YGOM) gets a mention although the airfield there does not appear to be operational anymore.

 

Cheers,

 

Pud

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I used to look after Springsure and Rolleston ALAs (unlicenced airstrips). Airservices dropped the unlicenced strips from the ERSA and I continually got compaints that we weren't there anymore. I called them and they said we couldn't be listed.

 

Then a couple of years ago I started getting compaints that our listing in the ERSA was wrong. No one actually asked us if we wanted to be listed again. We had since sealed and lengthened and lit one strip and sealed and reopened a strip at the other (and it was upside down & back to front in the new ERSA). By then the Council had amalgamaged (and I was reassigned to Water & Sewerage) and my pleas to have it fixed went to someone with no aviation knowledge who kept telling Airservices that the ERSA was right. Well, I see the diagram is right now, but the phone No's, email and www are still wrong.

 

Don't know what the policy is regarding private strips wishing to be in the ERSA. Last consultant's report rattled on about how dangerous it was to publish our ALA in AOPA, ERSA, etc giving pilots the impression that our airstrip was usable and thereby increasing the risk that someone might USE IT. Wanted the listing to state all conceivable risks, even those that were not risks - eg flooding (its on the top of a hill). Urged us to require written permission for landing with lengthy legal disclaimers to be signed by pilot and owner before landing. Also condemned the strip for not complying with RPT/frequent charter standard (none of which happen there). With help like that from "experts" no wonder its confusing.

 

Sue

 

 

[skeptic36]

Re the liability thing

 

Hi all,

 

Below is a post from a thread I had running 6 months ago:

 

For those interested,

 

On the 15th of June I sent this e-mail to CASA and the HGFA:

 

Dear Sir/Madame,

 

I am not sure who to address this enquiry to but hope you can help.

 

I am a HGFA member and trike pilot.

 

I live on a farm where I am about to start building a hangar and leveling an airstrip, where I would be keen to have other aviators land, socially or otherwise, but not for profit.

 

I am looking for advice on requirements regarding insurance. Does advertising it as a private strip - with filling out a special form a requirement - protect me from legal liability if a visiting pilot has an accident on my strip?

 

Is there a standard form available for this purpose?

 

Where would I need to advertise the requirements for someone landing here so it becomes a protection against litigation?

 

On the 18th of June I received this response from CASA :

 

Bill,

 

I'm afraid CASA can not provide you with much information except to advise you to contact the HGFA, an insurance company, and a legal practitioner. CASA has no standard forms of the type you suggest.

 

Of course, you would have a general duty of care to fellow pilots if you established an aerodrome for their use. The type of facility you intend to build, is what CASA describes as an 'Aeroplane Landing Area, ALA'. We publish an advisory document for such facilities, located on our website at:

 

http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/92_1.pdf

 

thankyou for your email.

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for a reply from the HGFA..

 

I know there is somebody there because my membership fees are readily accepted and I keep getting the magazine every month. Do they do anything else ?

 

 

I did eventually get a phone call from the hgfa (about the time they started to worry about their jobs). The gentleman assured me that the insurance situation had changed since the collapse of HIA and now a person can no longer sue you for things that are not your fault ie if a pilot chooses to land at your strip but finds it too short for his aircraft then that is his fault as pilot in command. He said if you maintain your strip and keep a log of when you checked it etc. all would be good. My problem with all that was it never came in writing and what with all the upheaval in the hgfa there was no way he had time for any more than a phone call :raise_eyebrow:

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

There are known knowns.

Those are things I know I know.

 

There are known unknowns.

 

That is to say

 

I know there are some things

 

I do not know.

 

But there are also unknown unknowns,

 

The ones I don't know I don't know.

Skeptic, I am interested in the fourth permutation.

 

are there unknown knowns and if so, how do you know? :stirring pot:

 

Qwerty

 

 

[skeptic36]

Skeptic, I am interested in the fourth permutation. are there unknown knowns and if so, how do you know? :stirring pot:

 

Qwerty

Well as a matter of fact there used to be but now I know those ones .........

 

How do I know?

 

I asked Maj

 

 

[Mazda]

If you want it published, there are contact details in the front of ERSA. All you need to do is send them details and they publish it.

 

 

[Guest Qwerty]

If you want it published, there are contact details in the front of ERSA. All you need to do is send them details and they publish it.

No they wont, I tried to get some info on Georgetown chaged a few years ago and their response was "we don't update the details of non licenced aerodromes" (the ones shown in grey) ........then I pointed out to them that this would affect safety, I got the change.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Hey DI,

 

You live in a very pictureque part of Australia on the Central Coast there but I notice you are a long way from your property at Inglebah NSW - SSW of Walcha isn't it? (only been to Walcha once and that was back in 1990) Are you looking to commute by aircraft? Sceptic36, I remember the thread you mention and it is very relevant for me at the moment as we (my mate Pol and I - Pol lurks here occasionally as a guest) are building a hanger on Pol's property at the moment (well just about to start) and already there is talk of others flying in for a visit when the airfield is ready. Not that there is any intention of going down the ALA path but these days 'Duty of Care' responsibility is cause for thought.

 

Pud

 

 

[Tracktop]

There are obviously lots of non ALA that are still used to land on

 

So Ian and others

 

Is there a need or want and is there a possibility without liability problems,

 

of including another type of location in the airfields database for these type of locations ;),

 

maybe "possible emergency EO location" or "Last chance landing location", or "Private strip",

 

or "private flat cleared area"

 

maybe with a phone no.

 

 

[poteroo]

In WA there exists a 'Country Airstrip Directory' which is very useful for what's not in ERSA. Many station strips, and small town strips are in it, along with basic info, plus contact numbers for obtaining either permission to use, or, current serviceability status.

 

If the strip is in the CAD, then it's generally indicative of the owners' positive attitude to flying. More often than not - the strip will have a windsock, and some primary markers. While the owner must exercise a duty-of-care in ensuring that, what details are published, are accurate - it is up to the intending user,(PIC), to obtain current status details +/- permission as indicated.

 

The strips at Beacon,Mukinbudin,Dowerin,Wyalkatchem,Wongan Hills,Koorda,Bencubbin,Kalannie,Kellerberrin,Ballidu,Mortham are all in CAD. The mentioned Goomalling strip is privately owned,and some 6nm SE of town - unavailable to all.

 

There are dozens of 'abandoned' airstrips in WA, many of them ex super-spreading locations in the Darling Scarp and Avon Valley. The strip remains visible due the spillage losses,plus the water erosion down the often steep strip over many years. Beware these locations because the slopes can be up to 10%, (you'd think it was PNG!), and the guttering is significant. Often, these strips employed a 'cocky' gate to allow them to run into a 2nd paddock. Nowdays, that's probably a permanent fence.

 

Deciding on the serviceability of a country strip from the air requires a fair deal of skill in flying, and experience in understanding what you see. Be sure that you are up-to-speed with precautionary search and landings and allow yourself plenty of time to evaluate an unknown strip. It's part of both the PPL and PC training that unfortunately gets trimmed because many instructors don't like, or have never been trained themselves, in low and slow flying. (a subject for another thread,perhaps?).

 

happy days,

 

 

[pudestcon]

G'day poteroo,

 

The Goomalling strip is not shown on WAC 3351 Perth 2008, but is shown on VNC-5 Perth effective 20th Nov 2008. This chart is not current by 6 months or so - interested to see if it appears on the current edition which I don't have at the moment.

 

I flew over the area a couple of weeks ago and was interested to see what appears to be an airfield complete with cross strip closer to the Goomalling townsite but in the middle of the bush reserve WNW of the town; it definitely doesn't look useable but gives the impression of an airfield in the process of being created but then postponed - maybe land rights issues:sad:. Take a look on Google Earth and you will see what I mean. Coords 31 17' S 116 49' E.

 

You are correct about Precautionary Search and Landing although my instructor back in 1996 did a lot of work with me on this. I haven't done any practise since (although did use it for real once in 2008) so will put it on the list for things to practise along with forced landings and others we all need to stay current on.

 

Cheers,

 

Pud

 

 

[poteroo]

The 'strips' in the bush just N of Goomalling are not airstrips - have been there for nigh on 40 years.

 

The strip to the SE is 1nm N of Sadler Rd, and 2nm E of the Meckering Rd.

 

Aggies were using paddock to the N of the bush reserve at one time.

 

happy days,

 

 

[pudestcon]

The 'strips' in the bush just N of Goomalling are not airstrips - have been there for nigh on 40 years. The strip to the SE is 1nm N of Sadler Rd, and 2nm E of the Meckering Rd.

 

Aggies were using paddock to the N of the bush reserve at one time.

 

happy days,

Thanks poteroo,

 

That's interesting about the 'airstrips' NW of Goomalling - wonder what it was all about?

 

You can see on Google Earth where the strip used to be SE of town.

 

Pud

 

 

[pudestcon]

DI,

 

Jeez mate!! 25 years? You are as bad as Pol and me - we've been talking about it for 2 or 3 decades now:)

 

I take your point about what constitutes an ALA.

 

It's interesting you mention testing an airstrip surface using a stiffly sprung vehicle; I was just reading about that in a 1992 Civil Aviation Authority Advisory Publication called "Guidelines for Aeroplane Landing Areas". It also has guidelines for testing if a soft surface is suitable for use. There's a lot of other useful stuff in the document as well.

 

I can't remember where I acquired the document but it is in PDF format if anyone wants a copy. Just PM me with your email address and I'll flick you a copy.

 

Cheers,

 

Pud

 

PS. We are digging holes this Saturday for the hangar columns but forecast temperature is 42 degrees!!...... I'm getting too old for this stuff:loopy:

 

 

[GraemeK]

I can't remember where I acquired the document .....

Document is here!

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

RFDS airstrip requirements

 

Requirements for RFDS Qld - as per CASA standard CAAP 92(1)(1) (in GreameK's post above) and you can test the strip using these methods

 

Airstrip Construction-Queensland Section | Royal Flying Doctor Service

 

More info on the standard, in plain english from the RFDS: Airstrip Information | Royal Flying Doctor Service

 

Sue

 

 

[pudestcon]

What are you thinking mate???:hittinghead:

 

Yeh.... Should have put the brain in gear before opening the mouth:raise_eyebrow: