Type conversion

[DarkSarcasm]

I did a search for this but couldn't find it, apologies if it's already been answered and I'm just hopeless at searching...

 

Once you're licenced, how do you go about getting certified (is that the right word?) in a different type of aircraft? I've had a look at the Ops Manual and the RA-Aus website but can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Someone told me you just had to do 3 hours in the new type, is that right?

 

I'm talking moving from a 3-axis to another 3-axis, not from a 3-axis to a trike for example. Does it make it more difficult if you're moving from a high wing to a low wing (or vice versa)?

 

I assume you just do some circuits and look at things like stall characteristics?

 

Thanks to anyone who can give me any info or even just point me to the right part of the Ops manual :)

 

 

[XP503]

Most type conversions are a fairly simple affair, but converting from a nosewheel aircraft to a TAILWHEEL aeroplane is like learning to fly all over again BUT OH SO MUCH FUN!!!!

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Most type conversions are a fairly simple affair, but converting from a nosewheel aircraft to a TAILWHEEL aeroplane is like learning to fly all over again BUT OH SO MUCH FUN!!!!

That's on the list for the future, don't worry! :big_grin:

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

Darky, It seems to me that, once you have your certificate and providing the a/c you are to fly is within your qualifications. its really a case of the a/c owner being satisfied that you are safe in the a/c.

 

In a school environment it may be a bit formalised, ie do this flight test etc, and for low time pilots I think that transition to a new type with a bit of mentoring by by friendly instructor is a GREAT idea.

 

Once you have more time and types up your sleeve, I think you will find that the formalities relax a bit. I have been privelidged to be allowed to fly some lovely old and valuable a/c but only after having satisfied the owner that I am unlikely to smash up his pride and joy, and I guess that is what the schools do ... make sure that the a/c hirer is not going to crash ...

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

So there's no particular rules/regs to follow? No set amount of hours or anything?

 

Also, does anyone know of a school in Melbourne that has Sportstars?

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I recently did a type conversion to a Jab 230, after flying 160s for all my training plus 12 hours post-Certificate. I was taken out to the training area for straight and levels, stalls and steep turns. Back for a break, then my second session was circuits. I got my conversion that day.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

I guess the two Jabs would be fairly similar (not saying they're the same, just similar). I'm looking at doing a conversion to a Sportstar from a Jab which I guess might be a little more different.

 

Your experience sounds like what I was expecting though, thanks :)

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Well, I flew a Sportstar once just before my PC test - you get a slightly faster cruise, but it is very slippery and lands much slower than a Jab - 60 kt on final. You can expect to do a couple of hours circuits to get used to the different speeds on each leg.

 

 

[XP503]

Try a Tecnam!!!

 

They are the Rolls Royce of recreational aircraft hahahaha

 

 

[Tomo]

I did about an hr dual with another instructor, another school to get signed off on their J230. (I just rocked up and he looked through my log book, then off we went)

 

First thing I wanted to do was see how it stalled, then glide etc... Then I discovered the J230 is pretty nice to land... (good when that happens! :big_grin: )

 

Go for it Darky! :thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Decca]

Darky just off the top of my head, in GA, students generally train in one type, so when they get to ppl they have a record in their log book that they are familiar with that type to the satisfaction of the CFI, thus they are “endorsed” on the type.

 

　

 

This evidence can be used at any other flying club/aircraft hire organization to verify recent flying experience, validity of licence, and competency of the pilot on the type.

 

　

 

If the private pilot then chooses to try a different type (let’s say from Cessna 172 to Piper Warrior), they don’t want to be thrown in at the deep end to handle things such as transition from high to low wing, (ground effect, & visibility may play a part here), slight differences in Airplane Flight Manuals in normal operating procedures (eg fuel management can be VERY different a/c to a/c), limitations (eg airspeeds),

 

Abnormal & Emergency Procedures, systems operation (having a knowledge of engine differences).

 

So after a short time (I don’t know what the requirements are) at the controls with an instructor & you’re familiar with the AFM, the instructor can “endorse” your log book to confirm competency on the new type.

 

　

 

Hope this helps. If not, just check your RAAus Operations Manual and/or ring the RAAus office, where I’m sure you’ll get a specific answer to your specific question very quickly, relevant to ultralights.

 

　

 

Regards, Decca.

 

 

[numptie]

Darky,

 

I've done a number of type conversions (mainly in GA) with aeroclubs and/or flying schools and provided there are no extra design features (eg, retractable undercarriage, tailwheel etc) you pretty much just do some circuits, stalls, glide approaches, flapless landings and simulated engine failures. They just want to make sure you can handle the aircraft safely. Sometimes it's taken me and hour or so and other times it's taken three or four lessons, depends on each individual aircraft and how you handle it.

 

Bob

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Thanks all :)

 

Once I get my cert I'll look into it (I just like planning ahead )

 

 

[Neil_S]

Hi Darky,

 

If the new/different plane has a cruising speed of less than 80 knots you will of course need a Low Performance endorsement (assuming you passed your test on a plane with a cruising speed of more than 80 knots and thus have a High Performance endorsement).

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[Bidgee]

Try a Tecnam!!!They are the Rolls Royce of recreational aircraft hahahaha

I'll second that! Great AC. If you really want to appreciate a Tecnam go for a lap in a J160 :-)

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

haha thanks guys, I'm sure I'll try a Tecnam one day.

 

Right now ideally I'd like to have my cert and checked out to fly a SportStar by the Anzac day weekend in April, be interesting to see if it actually happens or not (bet it doesn't)

 

If you have an RA-Aus cert, is it possible to do the conversion training in a VH-rego'd ultralight? Like if you wanted to get checked out in a VH-rego'd Jab, is it possible or would you need an SPL? Because it's still an ultralight, just not rego'd with RA-Aus....?

 

 

[Guest Decca]

Hey Darky, no more negative thoughts. I bet you never have any of those in your chosen career!

 

From now on, turn every hurdle into a challenge you can achieve. Go for it.

 

Regards, Decca.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Darky, When ever I try a new type I go to altitude and perform a series of manouvers to "get to know the beast !".

 

I prefer to do this solo, sometimes it takes only five minutes before I'm happy, sometimes it take 20 minutes. I mean were not test flying here, but we do want to get a good 'feel' for the aircraft prior to the first (and often only) landing. Initially I want to check out aileron response, and action. How quick does it respond ?, is there adverse yaw, and does it need rudder to keep straight during aileron use. You already know the climb rate from the take off, and if the aircraft needs much rudder imput with high power. Then I will slow to landing approach speed (still at altitude) with the aircraft in landing mode, so I can do a siimilated final approach. This will give me speeds, power and trim required for landing. Depending on the aircraft, I may then do some stalls noting if it has any tendency to drop a wing, and if it is the same wing every time, or not, and finding just how easy it recovers from a stall.

 

I will then do a fairly aggressive 'dutch roll'. It sounds exotic, but is very basic, and is just similtanous use of the ailerons and rudder. It lets me know just how harmonized the design is, and also how powerfull (or not ) the rudder is. Some tight turns R & L may tell you something about the aircraft. That usually does it for me, and now I have all I need to either safely land the aircraft with power, or without. On the way down, once again depending on the type, I may also check out a sideslip or two, to further familiarize myself with the aircraft. Always do your new aircraft checkout at some altitude (at least 2-3000 Ft), that way if one of the stalls takes your breath away, it'll be less stressfull, and you will be more comfortable. It is always very wise to talk with someone who also has experience in the type, to find out if the type has any 'nasty' habits that you will want to know about prior to flight......................... Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

Type Conversion?

 

The RAAus now has a new system of "endorsements". These are not of aircraft types, but of "features". This is similar to CASA with features such as retract gear, constant speed prop. pressurisation, turbine, and so on.

 

RAAus has it's own list. In theory, you do not need an endorsement on an aircraft unless it has a different "feature/system used on its operation.

 

The reality is different. ALL aircraft fly a bit differently and have little idiosynchrasies, and different placement of controls, weight and balance fuel system management etc. SO.. It would be very unwise to get in one and just fly it .

 

Ideally you would get expert tuition from someone very familiar with the plane. Someone may have altered it .IF it is not a school aircraft), and you should be aware of any differences. As you build up your experience with more and more planes these differences cause you less and less trouble, but you would be a fool indeed if you didn't make sure that you had done a good sit in the cockpit and made sure that you were familiar with EVERYTHING there and the POH. Nev..

 

 

[Tomo]

be interesting to see if it actually happens or not (bet it doesn't)

Optimistic pessimist eh?

 

April's yonks away yet... you'll get there... :thumb_up:

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Optimistic pessimist eh? April's yonks away yet... you'll get there... :thumb_up:

Something like that Tomo

 

I'm going to book 3 missions a week during March/April, decided I should make a concentrated effort to actually get my certificate :)

 

 

[dazza 38]

HI Darky, i have flown solo, and have been "endorsed" if that is the word in eight different a/c.I only currently fly three, all tecnams. Some of the a/c like the drifter, Ga PIPER Archer were a long time ago. If you want to fly a tecnam from your J160, i think you will find it a easy conversion, a jabiru from memory was a little bit harder to fly(less forgiving). Their are guys here, who have flown alot more differnent A/C, than eight, eight isnt a lot realy,Like Major, they know what their talking about.Cheers

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Currently the plan is to find somewhere to get checked out in a Sportstar since I have a vague plan to go to Adelaide for the Anzac day weekend and they have SportStars there (assuming I actually get my certificate in time of course)

 

Going by the comments on here though, I'll clearly have to try a Tecnam one day! :)

 

 

[dazza 38]

Sportstars, although never flown one, i think will be a nice a/c.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Dazzas right, the Sporty should be nice to fly. I would imagine if you can handle a Jab it'll be no drama. I haven't tried a Sporty yet so can't offer any more tips. One thing that can surprise you when hopping into different aircraft, is the amount of rudder required to stay straight on take-off. Some require none, or very little (Lightwing, savannah, some Drifters) whilst others require a full bootfull. Jumping out of a Drifter with a fixed trim tab on the rudder into one without, can be a wake-up call if your not ready. Feed the power in gently, never rapidly, and the tendency to bite you will be less amplified, if it is there....................Maj...