Do we really need this?

[jetjr]

$20K cost???

 

How do you work this out? few thousand AC getting new rego cards and plastic pockets?

 

To keep website updated with accurate last rego data WOULD cost money.

 

Id guess most of the cost of these currency checks on cars and planes would be the tracking down of the owner and checking if an aircraft is current or not or has he just got the card in his pocket which will keep office dwellers tied up for many hours. THIS will cost us plenty.

 

OK it may not stop every unreg AC and may not deliver the goal 100%. No one expects it to, its just a small change designed to help.

 

BUT the local managers and authorities at an airfield can easily walk by or drive by and check currency on 99% of aircraft excepting a few like the examples given, covers, no panel etc

 

Save our steam for a rule change which really matters

 

 

[bilby54]

BUT the local managers and authorities at an airfield can easily walk by or drive by and check currency on 99% of aircraft excepting a few like the examples given, covers, no panel etc

So it is going to cost someone, somewhere some cost to police it!

 

The 'airport managers' are only really interested in landing fees and other airport charges. A cost to them in time and phone calls for a possible unregistered aircraft is probably not going to happen especially if it chases business away.

 

I own an airworthy aircraft that, for reasons that I will not go into here, is unregistered and hangared on field. Occaisionally it might be on the tarmac for cleaning or to get another aircraft out of the hanger or whatever. Is that breaking the law under this new rule?:ah_oh:

 

If someone reports it to RAA, what will they do about it? The aircraft is not flown but it will take a bunch of time and effort for the authorities to determine and I may have to answer a charge that will require my time and effort to defend. How many aircraft are around the place in the same situation that could all face whatever prosecution measures are dreamed up and all have to be defended. :raise_eyebrow:

 

Is the above situation going to apply to aircraft parked at your own farm strip or to aircraft that have rego numbers, are unregistered but are being restored?

 

Australia has way to many regulations that need pruning not more of the things, especially as it 'might only get a few'

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Bilby, you bring up a very good point, the way i see it, if a RAA a/c, is stored, IE-not flown for years, or being re-built as a project in someones, spare time etc. Its doesnt have to be registed unless it is going to be OR is being flown. Can someone clarify this? There are aways heaps of older ultralights on ebay from time to time that havent been flown for a long time, generally there rego has expired years ago.This is a bit off thread from the envelope subject. Sorry

 

 

[jetjr]

It could mean those who are supposed to be policing it can now start, and do it easier and cheaper. Id also suggest this wasnt drempt up by RAA too, more likely CASA or whoever is supposed to be watching it. Remember they dont have direct access to the RAA database (for our protection)

 

Im sure an airifield manager (or Council owner) is concerned with someone flying and unreg AC around thier strip, if they prang they are uninsured and unlikely to pay for damage they may cause OR pay thier landing fees.

 

Its only illegal to FLY the aircraft, if its going nowhere they arent going to do anything about it!

 

Theres no new regs here, only where you put the rego card

 

Im not for the new system, I just dont really think it matters

 

 

[BigPete]

HHHMMMM

 

Maybe our aircraft need to remain registered but have an active or in-active classification. If under going long term storage or rebuild etc, etc, and are not flying then they could still be accounted for.

 

You would only pay when re-activated and the aircraft could not be removed from the register unless it was destroyed (or sold overseas).

 

my 2c worth.

 

regards

 

 

[bilby54]

To those interested, I emailed a SE Qld board member with the concerns raised here.

 

He advised that there is a lot of confusion surrounding the implementation of this AN and it will be discussed at the board meeting this weekend. I appreciated his quick response and look forward to the outcome

 

 

[David F]

Rego Stickers

 

I recon that CASA is throwing its weight around and that the RAA head office guys are the meat in the sandwich.They must be seen to be managing the problem effectively hence the directive.If we get a new fat controller at CASA the situation will change.

 

Just my 2 bobs worth Dave

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I talked to some board members and Lee Ungermann about this last night.

 

The cost of the exercise is 11c per member for a one-off addition of the plastic pouch, and maybe a little extra ink for the bigger expiry date. That's it.

 

Regarding covering the labels up with your canopy cover when parked - you're parked so it doesn't matter.

 

The main thrust of this is the large number of unregistered aircraft out there. Having the expiry displayed will assist with member enforcement through peer pressure. It's the only real mechanism we have for getting the number down.

 

Not taking action is the expensive option. Apart from the liability issues, damage to our image, and lack of insurance if you're not registered, there is a large amount of income lost to the RAAus. Unregistered people still benefit from everything the organisation does, but contribute less toward these benefits.

 

Just thought I'd add a couple of facts.

 

 

[bilby54]

Regarding covering the labels up with your canopy cover when parked - you're parked so it doesn't matter.

 

I don't understand how they can say that as the AN clearly says that it MUST be visible from the wing tip:

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 



"The owner of any aircraft registered with RA-Aus must place the card in a position where

 

 

 

 

 

it can be read FROM OUTSIDE of the aircraft, in fact from the aircraft’s left wing tip."

 

 

:confused::confused::confused: Why bother ...... unless it is by the air police on their cloud cycles!!

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I don't understand how they can say that as the AN clearly says that it MUST be visible from the wing tip:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



"The owner of any aircraft registered with RA-Aus must place the card in a position where

 

 

 

 

 

it can be read FROM OUTSIDE of the aircraft, in fact from the aircraft’s left wing tip."

 

 

:confused::confused::confused: Why bother ...... unless it is by the air police on their cloud cycles!!

Yes. Lee said he hasn't seen the wording of the AN and will look into it. It may need clarification.

 

 

[Tomo]

I don't understand how they can say that as the AN clearly says that it MUST be visible from the wing tip:

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 



"The owner of any aircraft registered with RA-Aus must place the card in a position where

 

 

 

 

 

it can be read FROM OUTSIDE of the aircraft, in fact from the aircraft’s left wing tip."

 

 

:confused::confused::confused: Why bother ...... unless it is by the air police on their cloud cycles!!

Maybe it has something to do with when you're driving it...... as in, taxiing etc.... ever wondered why the left side? Think about taxing/passing rules (just a thought).

 

When the aircraft is parked, covered up, and not being used, who cares if it's registered or not! But once you start it up and are attempting to use it, that's when it matters.

 

Just a bit more oxygen for the fire.....

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Any HGFA guys here? are you expected to do this?? If so where do you have to fit them?

 

Ian, i spoke to a couple of non complying scout types last night to give them the heads up on not being legal and the consequenses. Not a chance of that small group coming into the fold they refuse to hand over money just to stay out of jail. don't blame them really.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Any HGFA guys here? are you expected to do this?? If so where do you have to fit them?.

Hi Ozzie,

 

We just have a sticker about 40mm square with the HGFA logo printed on it and the reg number and due date written in pen. It is stuck on the dash.

 

I haven't said anything cause I'm not RAAus but I don't see the need for stick on pouches in special spots, it has been said that the way police do it would cost too much, well why can't the person/persons charged with the job of making sure rego's are correct sit at the airfield with a lap top reading the (easily legible from a distance) reg numbers, type them in and see if the details for that number match the aircraft and that it is current. No great cost there and they probably already have the laptop anyway.

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Thanks for that Bill and i suppose the Nano Lghters(<75kg) still have no rego or numbers or extra cost to worry about?

 

 

[HEON]

The AN's wording probably needs a rethink.

 

While I can see what is being attempted it is a bit like using a D9 to dig a garden at your house...will do the job but creates other problems!

 

Such as...in plastic holder! What if not in holder but still visable from LH wing tip? This is technically in breach of the AN! Note some on this thread have said they got the new card but no holder!

 

A normal person would say OK, however there are a lot of very strange people out there (like some airport workers dealings with "the little red card")...no holder=failure to implement the AN! If entered in aircraft log book as directed=falsifying records?????

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Hi Ozzie,We just have a sticker about 40mm square with the HGFA logo printed on it and the reg number and due date written in pen. It is stuck on the dash.

I haven't said anything cause I'm not RAAus but I don't see the need for stick on pouches in special spots, it has been said that the way police do it would cost too much, well why can't the person/persons charged with the job of making sure rego's are correct sit at the airfield with a lap top reading the (easily legible from a distance) reg numbers, type them in and see if the details for that number match the aircraft and that it is current. No great cost there and they probably already have the laptop anyway.

 

Regards Bill

Hi Bill,

 

My HGFA Rego sticker must have been written up by HGFA with a whiteboard marker. As soon as I touched it the writing came off on my fingers. With that in mind I couldn't see the point sticking it on the trike and I haven't seen any directive from HGFA making it mandatory, yet. For the other trike the writing didn't come off when touched so I have attached it to the trike.

 

I suppose I could re-write the first one with permanent marker, though it's hardly fool-proof as one could write whatever date one wants . . .

 

:kboom:

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[bilby54]

Yes. Lee said he hasn't seen the wording of the AN and will look into it. It may need clarification.

I am not having a go at Lee or anyone else but this bothers me as to how RAAus works when the ex CEO does not know how the AN was written.

 

There would appear to be something going on in the background that we don't know about. Poorly written regulations are what governments do so well and keep lawyers employed for years and this could well go down that track if not carefull.

 

The AN does not state what condition the aircraft has to be in, ie parked, flying, pulled to bits or taxying and has the possibility of leaving a lot of people open to legal action of some sort.

 

Maybe we should employ Darky to write the regulations in future!!:)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

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[Tomo]

so what's recreational flying....?

 

............... It's fun!

 

 

[jetjr]

[quote=skeptic36 "well why can't the person/persons charged with the job of making sure rego's are correct sit at the airfield with a lap top reading the (easily legible from a distance) reg numbers, type them in and see if the details for that number match the aircraft and that it is current. No great cost there and they probably already have the laptop anyway."

 

Because the database with the currency/owner/rego information isnt availiable to anyone (CASA included) except through RAA

 

This is done to protect us and means any tracking of AC or owners is done through RAA - NOT directly with owners. Its a core part of us acting and being treated as a group not as individuals and the strength this brings.

 

It would also complicate and cost RAA admin having to keep an online database accurate in real time.

 

Id reckon it would be fair game to see an AC fly in for fuel or at a fly in and someone to walk up and check rego currency.

 

AC arent "parked, locked and covered" or "flying" - fair bit of time when inspections could easily be done from wingtip or somewhere near it having full evidence it has just been or is about to fly.

 

 

[ahlocks]

...The AN does not state what condition the aircraft has to be in, ie parked, flying, pulled to bits or taxying and has the possibility of leaving a lot of people open to legal action of some sort.

The offence is flying unregistered aircraft. Where's the issue? :confused:

 

 

[facthunter]

Flying Unregistered.

 

IF someone has ceased to be/or never was, a member of RAAus or had a CASA licence and happens to be flying in some remote location where he/she is not likely to be seen much, Whose responsibility is it really? The individual is liable, personally, but whose job is it to prevent this happening. In other words police it? How can I and the organisation I belong to be responsible. IF some one acquires an aircraft and flys it illegally, but never joins the organisation. It could be a DC-3, or a winton grasshopper, a drifter or a Jabiru. it's the same in principle. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Nev, you are 100% correct BUT someone flying an EX RAA regd AC is taking advantages all us others have paid for and are fighting to keep

 

We should encourage them to pay thier way

 

Let alone if this guy taxis/flys into your Aircraft, its your problem as he wont have insurance of any sort.

 

Id reckon there arent many who just stay in remote places especially those with a flyable DC3?

 

 

[ahlocks]

So a directive to have the aircraft's registration status prominently displayed has been promulgated and the cost of compliance is three parts of stuff all....

 

I just can't see why this has generated such a controversy? :ne_nau:

 

 

[GraemeK]

I agree - I reckon markendee said it all many pages back

 

Are you telling me I have to take my rego card, put it in a clear plastic envelope and stick it onto the left hand side of my windscreen?I'll have to have a lie down after all that.