Thinking about building a J430

[Guest Topend]

Hi,

 

I am thinking about building a J430 for GA rego. Any comments, opinions or advice would be appreciated.

 

My one concern is the reports of engine reliability. It is hard to tell fact from fiction. It does appear these have been addressed through mods and correct maintenance. I have a little more research to do on this subject. Once I have what I believe are the facts I can move toward (or away from) ordering a kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave.

 

 

[sseeker]

From what I know the J430 runs on the Jabiru 3300 which I haven't heard anything bad about. I've heard nothing but good things about the Jabiru engines. I take it you know that the J430 can only be registered in GA? The J230 is the next model down and can be registered in RA-Aus or GA. Haven't built or flown one myself so can't really comment on anything else.

 

 

[Outback]

Hi Dave,

 

My son and I have recently built a J430. It took 18 months to build and everything went pretty well. Jamie at Jabiru was always helpful. We found the biggest job was the finishing prior to painting (sanding, more sanding, filling etc).

 

Our plane has now done just over 26 hours and is ready for the first maintainence, so its a bit early to report on the engine as we still have the run-in oil in service. CHT on No.3 cyl was redlining on full power in climb - Jamie recommended a small fibre glass deflector in the air-duct ram enclosure to direct more air on that cyl. This worked fine bring the temp down about 15 degrees into the green. Apart that that small issue we have found the engine just great.

 

The plane itself is a pleasure to fly. Coming from GA and heavier planes I thought the J430 was a bit "twitchy" at first and my first few landings were shockers. However you soon get used to the characteristics of this light and responsive aircraft.

 

Hope this is of help.

 

Garry

 

 

[Guest Topend]

Hi Dave, My son and I have recently built a J430. It took 18 months to build and everything went pretty well. Jamie at Jabiru was always helpful. We found the biggest job was the finishing prior to painting (sanding, more sanding, filling etc).

Our plane has now done just over 26 hours and is ready for the first maintainence, so its a bit early to report on the engine as we still have the run-in oil in service. CHT on No.3 cyl was redlining on full power in climb - Jamie recommended a small fibre glass deflector in the air-duct ram enclosure to direct more air on that cyl. This worked fine bring the temp down about 15 degrees into the green. Apart that that small issue we have found the engine just great.

 

The plane itself is a pleasure to fly. Coming from GA and heavier planes I thought the J430 was a bit "twitchy" at first and my first few landings were shockers. However you soon get used to the characteristics of this light and responsive aircraft.

 

Hope this is of help.

 

Garry

Hi Garry,

 

Thanks for the feedback. I will stay in touch via this thread updating my progress. I hope to fly in a J230 within the next week or so.

 

Dave.

 

 

[jetjr]

J430 is a great plane, I was keen on doing one for a while.

 

Problems come when selling, in GA its always going to be experimental, and next owner basically looses benefits of catagory as it goes back to full LAME maint etcetc.

 

Leaves you with a very limited market to sell into and prices accordingly

 

Can always take back into RAA BUT its then a 19 regd 230 BUT then it only has 544kg MTOW

 

Might get a few more kg MTOW if new rules ever get past but never more than 600kgs due to max stall reqd.

 

You ll see 544kg is not enough for 2 pax and full fuel

 

RAA J230 LSA is only 2 seats but you have 600kg MTOW straight up and you can buy them ready to go from factory

 

J450 might be something to ask about, bit slower but better designed to take advantage of raised MTOW in RAA

 

If you are going to keep it for a long time go for 430

 

 

[Captain]

CHT on No.3 cyl was redlining on full power in climb - Jamie recommended a small fibre glass deflector in the air-duct ram enclosure to direct more air on that cyl. This worked fine bring the temp down about 15 degrees into the green. Apart that that small issue we have found the engine just great.

Garry,

 

Do you have anything that you can send me, or can you describe it in detail here, of what size that deflector is and exactly where it is located in the duct?

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Outback]

Hello Geoff,

 

Jamie at Jabiru said that their US Distributor found that a small deflector behind the overheating cyl did reduce the temperature of that cyl by about 10 degrees C.

 

I used a piece of fibre glass about 25mm in height left over from the kit, shaped it so fitted inside the top of the air duct enclosure, then angled it to about 45 deg, then placed it at the rear of No.3 cyl and secured it by using a 2 pack high temperature compound "borrowed" from a local engineering shop.

 

The only downside is that the compound is black and this can been seen from the outside of the air duct enclosure.

 

My No.3 cyl temp dropped by about 15 deg C and strangly, didn't seem to have any affect on the temp of No. 5 cyl - right behind No.3.

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

Garry

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Hi Gary,

 

Have a look at this website. Lots of info.

 

index

 

 

[Guest Minifn]

I fly a J230 at the moment Have been flying Jab's for 10 years now and have owned 2. The only problem I can see with them is their engine. The 3300 have a top end life of around 300Hrs one of mine bearly made it to 175hrs. My mates had 3 top ends by 500hrs but on a positive side they just dont stop they just get very lazy. I am currently looking at building again but this time with a lycoming engine 0-320.

 

I hope this does not put you off they do make a very nice airframe.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

What problems have they had?

 

Mine is coming up to 240 hours so is right in the time frame you mentioned.

 

Better know what it is I have to look out for.

 

John

 

 

[Guest Minifn]

Hi John

 

I operate off a 700m strip and the first thing I noticed was I could see the fence more clearly. On a big strip you may not notice it so early. The static revs start to drop I was only getting 2600rpm before I rebuilt. It happens over about 50Hrs its starts using oil as it gets slower. If you do leakdown test you will pick up whats going on. The engine still runs very smooth. The Valve guides wear very fast also during all this your temps say normal.

 

In saying this there are some Jab 3300 out there with good hrs an having no problems and no one can explain why. The Jab Factory say its bad maintence.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Tried posting this before but it didn't seem to make it there.

 

What problems with the top end have you seen or heard?

 

Mine is getting into that hour range and would like to have an idea on what to watch for.

 

John

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Oops. That's odd! When I first looked at the page my previous post was not there. Then reposted the question and it suddenly appeared. Sorry guys. Must have been a cached page. Disregard my last post!

 

With regard the valve guides and wearing down. I noticed a little oil had seeped out from under a spark plug the other day. Spoke to Jabiru and they suggested the valve guide might be worn allowing oil to by pass and get into the cylinder. They didn't actually say the Jab engine was prone to it but the way he talked I got that impression. I am in the process of getting a LAME with Jab experience to have a look at it. But I suspect maybe a need to pull the cylinder off and send back to Jabiru.

 

John

 

 

[jetjr]

Top end done in Bundaberg ~ $5500 plus any other busted bits or repair work, ie cylider hone or head work

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

BlackRod: those are pretty sobering numbers. Even if you don't need to top overhaul at 500 and only do an overhaul at 1000, Rotax and Lycoming are going to work out cheaper still for 2000 hours of fun.

 

If you are building yourself, you can put in any engine you like! An O-235 comes to mind, though you lose about 30KG in useful load. (Not sure if there would be any CoG problems)

 

Try to find a 1000-hour engine second hand and you could have a bargain.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Mmm. You're right. Starting to look unattractive...

 

That weight would affect C of G and would be a real problem in a Jabiru. You would have to add more weight in the tail to get the balance back. Not quite 30 kgs because the arm is a lot longer but still probably another 5 or 6 kg. So add that in & you decrease the usable load by 30 - 36 kg. That's a significant amount.

 

I don't know that you would need a complete overhaul each time there was a top end problem might be limited to a single cylinder job but still is going to be a fair cost.

 

 

[Guest Minifn]

Hi All

 

I got a quote from lycoming for a 0-235 with fuel injection and prop 6 months ago and it came to a little under $25,000 Aus I looked at the 0-320 but the weight made things hard.

 

There is a Jab J430 being built at the moment with a 8 cylinder Jab motor.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Keep in mind that most private owners fly around 50 hours a year, so the engine will run out of time before running out of hours. But if the 2200 is the same, busy schools would save a fair bit of money over the year if they had the option of buying a factory J170 with Rotax 912 in it.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

0-235 with fuel injection and prop 6 months ago and it came to a little under $25,000

So only about 5 grand more than a 3300 solution? I'd pick than any day over a 3300 if the weight isn't a major issue.

 

 

[facthunter]

Lycoming engine

 

The latest offering for "small" planes is the Lyc 0-233. It has been out for a while and is a lightened down version of the engine fitted to the C-152 and Tomahawk. Been around in one form or another for ages. Beware of getting an old one that has been sitting around. You can spend more on them than a new one costs and the later ones are lighter and improved. They are still not that light and are about 115 HP. If you fitted one to a Jab the cowl would look bad. The engine is quite wide. TBO 2400 hrs.

 

Continental have an 0-200 D which is a bit smaller and lighter and about 100 HP. (FADEC engine management) and good engine life. The advantage of these higher displacement engines is that they swing largish props without a reduction gear. This helps most with "draggy" planes.

 

Prop clearance from the ground is a thing to take into account, if you are planning an engine swap. Nev

 

 

[bushpilot]

We have 2 J230s - one has done 270 hours.. It shows same power as when new and leakdowns are perfect.. Uses about 30ml oil and hour - which is normal..

 

The second one is only 6 weeks old - has done 53 hours in the hands of students, and no engine issues have emerged.

 

 

[Tomo]

The little J120 I fly must be coming close to the 900hr mark by now. Never had any serious problems with it.

 

 

[jetjr]

I think firstly theres plenty of Jabs getting up towards 750-1000 hrs without much work at all.

 

When theres an issue its often not a full "top end overhaul", more likely some head work or a cylinder repair. A proper TEO involves much more than heads and valves.

 

Also lets also not confuse 6 and 4 cyl Jabs, the $5K was for a 3300 which, if Im not mistaken, is 25% more hp than a Rotax 912? which is what most would be comparing to in regards to cost and reliability.

 

Just 100hp would make a J230 etc fairly "different" aircraft to fly Id imagine.

 

Secondly a ZERO time factory rebuilt Jabiru 3300 is only $10K which is fairly good value.

 

Not disagreeing with numbers really, just need to keep comarisons true to whats being compared.

 

 

[Vorticity]

The quote I got from jabiru this week for a 3300:

 

zero time engine solid lifter or hyd lifter - $15,500

 

new engine - $18,950.

 

 

[jetjr]

Yep and youll get ~ $5500 back when you return a old core engine