Thinking about building a J430

[bushpilot]

We have 2 J230s - one has done 270 hours.. It shows same power as when new and leakdowns are perfect.. Uses about 30ml oil and hour - which is normal..The second one is only 6 weeks old - has done 53 hours in the hands of students, and no engine issues have emerged.

oh, and our 2, 2200 engines have done 493hours and 370hours.. Only needed spark plugs, filters and replacement oil..

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

The newer (more properly cooled?) engines seem to do a lot better. You can see huge differences in the old and new ones.

 

One thing that worries me though, that through all these changes, Jabiru never seems to have admitted something was wrong with the old ones.

 

Still, $19K for a 120HP engine is not great value, especially when it only goes for 1000 hours.

 

What's the price on a 2200 these days? Prices I can see around the net put an 80HP 912 around $4K more than a 2200. Seems better value to me than a Jab, especially in a busy school aircraft that does close to 1000 hours a year.

 

Shame there are few 120HP engine options around for use in a J230; wouldn't want just 100 in there, no.

 

Fingers crossed for the O-233 to arrive one day...

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Putting 2 & 2 together . . . $15,500 for a zero time less $5,500 for a re-usable core = $10,000 for a 120hp motor. Look after it and get 1,000 hours and that's $10 per hour. Hard to beat that?

As discussed above, you can buy a new O-235 for $25K, the core-resale value won't be less than $5K either. Get 2000 hours out of it, same $10/hour. And it's a Lycoming. :)

Of course Lycoming parts will likely be more expenisive over the years you run it, but just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's lesser value. I'd put a lot more trust in the Lycoming...

 

I guess the point is, people look at the sticker price and say: "The Jabiru costs 10 grand less!", but it is total cost of ownership that really matters. (unless you have a pressing cashflow issue, of course)

 

It would be good to see a real-world comparison of engine failures and maintenance difficulties. I would assume RA-Aus has the data, why not publish it?

 

 

[facthunter]

Real Cost.

 

You're on the money with reducing it to the per hour cost. With the 582's they really only have a legal life of 300 hours and you replace the whole deal for just under 9K? So that's $30/ h, less whatever you can get for your old engine.

 

Some will say that they will NEVER do 2400 hours on a motor but it's still a valid consideration, when allowing for your "real" costs. If you are doing a "top" on a Jab and doing it yourself then it is not a big expense as the parts are not dear. In a school situation the Lyc. would probably go through to the TBO. (2400 hrs). The trade-in situation applies to these engines too. They are bulkier and a bit heavier for their horsepower, but most likely the most reliable option and at a cost that is not much (if any) higher per hour. I personally prefer the Cont. O-200, but most of them that are around have been rebuilt many times and there is a question whether that is desireable.

 

The "new" 0-200D is there but it is FADEC and I would prefer the 2 magneto's. but each to his/her own. Nev

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

But, as Jabiru keep upgrading their engines, the stats probably wouldn't be too helpful. You almost have to take them on trust - and how scary is that?

You can see real big differences in design externally (cooling fins) from the start of a certain serial number. So you can differentiate the tables on revisions of the engines.

I also think if there was this kind of reporting, it would force manufacturers to make real statements about why older ones were less reliable instead of the tired old line of blaming it on maintenance rather than design issues.

 

One day we might have a situation where manufacturers will try to be proud of their achievements in making engines more reliable and supporting those with issues better!

 

 

[jetjr]

Interesting re Old versions vs new

 

Id have said older solid lifter variants had less issues even WITH the thick finned heads

 

Maybe its related to how many are out there, when they make big changes there is always seems to be a reliability setback

 

Cooling and mixture (EGT) is a constant problem, monitor what you have and you can prevent problems I think

 

Whats the rebuild cost or Zero time replacement of a Lyco?

 

They can have problems too, when they do its scary expensive.

 

There were similar story somewhere re newer 300hp? not making TBO MOST of the time. Group of owners legally "approaching" manufacturer. Some doubt as to TBO claimed, as very few had made it.

 

Ill see if I can find it

 

 

[planesmaker]

I Have a j400 jabiru, airframe is great, low maintenance, But when I built mine I fitted a rotax 914 as I was not keen on the jab engines. weight wise it is about 15kg heavier and a better CoG range empty wt 345kg. Performance with the rotax is lets just say fantastic. at 700kg mtow airborne in about 300m and climbing at over 1000'/min. I am very happy with this combination. Tom