Insane Bureaucracy

[techie49]

Has anyone elso noticed the stupidity of the Aviation ID Australia RENEWAL (note renewal) form?

 

I know this is an incredible nannyguided pastime but that form takes the bloody biscuit. You have to go through the process of once again proving who you are . They ought to know, they issued the last ASIC! You have to get your ID documents endorsed by a JP again. Why, I'm still the person whose details they have on file. Photos next. Again a JP's signature. It's still me. Why does a JP have to sign the photograph? If they hold it against the previous one on record there's a pretty good chance it'll be similar. Then they have the bloody cheek to demand $196 for the work they have to do.

 

Think I'll take up fishing. Oh no, I need a licence for that too.....................:hittinghead:

 

Paul Toone

 

 

[Tomo]

To be in aviation you certainly have to enjoy it eh?!?!

 

They don't seem to make anything simple 'at all'! :pc strikes back:

 

 

[dazza 38]

Has anyone elso noticed the stupidity of the Aviation ID Australia RENEWAL (note renewal) form?I know this is an incredible nannyguided pastime but that form takes the bloody biscuit. You have to go through the process of once again proving who you are . They ought to know, they issued the last ASIC! You have to get your ID documents endorsed by a JP again. Why, I'm still the person whose details they have on file. Photos next. Again a JP's signature. It's still me. Why does a JP have to sign the photograph? If they hold it against the previous one on record there's a pretty good chance it'll be similar. Then they have the bloody cheek to demand $196 for the work they have to do.

Think I'll take up fishing. Oh no, I need a licence for that too.....................:hittinghead:

 

Paul Toone

Hi Paul, i posted a while back about the above.Best thing to do is make copies for yourself of all your data, for next time. APart from the photos where the signatures have to have a date, within a time frame.The day they get rid of it, the better.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

be carefull of the JP he may be a Mosad agent.

 

 

[winsor68]

be carefull of the JP he may be a Mosad agent.

Or a Killer Whale...

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Or a Killer Whale...

He's certainly killing my Wallet!! Butif you want fuel (AVGAS 100LL) in my neck of the woods you have to have one, no if's or buts.

 

Andy

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

Can't help but add my feelings too:-

 

My ASIC is due for it's 2nd renewal, i.e. my 3rd ASIC. I've dutifully followed the steps, paid my pound(s) of flesh, and carried it wherever I've needed to. This amounts to about 4 or 5 locations per year, usually on my way to or from Natfly or Avalon and then only when I need to stop for Avgas.

 

How often has it been required? Once only, and that was when I was wearing it around my neck but it had blown inside my open jacket. And that at a country NSW airport.

 

If it really meant extra security, and was regularly checked, I would accept the need for an ASIC. But when country SA airports have 100 metres of security fence before anyone can walk around the end of this fence and on to the movement area I fail to appreciate the logic. These airports are often only attended by airline and operator staff immediately before and after scheduled RPT flights (and not many of them, either) - otherwise the airfield is deserted.

 

Maybe I'm getting old and grumpy, but this is clearly just another tax impost on honest, gullible citizens. Please convince me that ASICS are good and useful!!!

 

(Soapbox now dismounted)

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

So if you need it only 4 or 5 times or so per year just to get fuel enroute then this adds what to a tank of gas. 20/30/50 bucks a tank.??

 

 

[winsor68]

The cost impost of ASICs and the fact you pay a fee for a two year ASIC and only get 23 months just to add insult to injury is one matter. When the display of the ASIC is not enforced it makes a mockery of the whole idea in the first instance.The absolute profound stupidity of the renewal requirements surely doesn't escape the idiot bureaucrats that designed these forms. Then again you would be forgiven for thinking the bureaucrats were neanderthals .... what other possible explanation could there be.

 

Since we are required to display our ASICs when at any facility where RPT activate, we should start enforcing the requirement to display ASICs by challenging any person we see on the air side at any regional airfield to display his / her ASIC or get out of the "secure" area. We have that right as a member of the public in the interests of our safety to demand someone produce their ID.

 

I fly regionally quite regularly and have decided to challenge any person I see on the "secure" side to show me their ASIC. They cannot legally refuse because they know they legally have to display. I have seen plenty of staff that either don't have their ASIC on them or it is obscured by clothing which we all know is illegal.

 

Bugger them, if it is good enough for us to be forced to purchase and wear them and no one enforces it, it is quite right that we should challenge anyone.

 

Why you say.......... because we can and should.:stirring pot:

 

David

Good one Dave... and you are quite correct. One staff member where I work, a recent immigrant from Britain, challenged Anna Bligh and her entourage to produce their ASICS... He received hearty pats on the back for weeks afterwards.

 

I have pulled plain clothes Police Officers up and challenged them to produce it... Felt quite good to see the ball on the other foot..."You're in my world now Officer!" He he he

 

N.B. Politicians and their entourage, Plain Clothes Police and members of the military are apparently "allowed" to wander wherever they wish at airports with no ASIC... Go figure? I know some of you may say "Why should the military display ASICS when they already have security clearance?" BUT... It is a bit strange that people wearing military uniform are unlikely to be looked at twice at our airports when anyone can purchase a uniform from a disposals store... I regularly see aircraft land, the military crews hop out and bypass security... who is to know if they are "ours" or the "enemy"???

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I'm still confused about the need for an ASIC. The FAQ on the CASA site only help to confuse Civil Aviation Safety Authority - ASICs & AVIDs

 

Are pilots still allowed to fly without an ASIC?

 

Yes. Pilots only need to have submitted an application for an AVID or an ASIC to operate an aircraft. The application will be processed and appropriate background checks undertaken prior to the AVID or ASIC being issued to an eligible pilot.

 

Do you then attach your application to your outer clothing above waist height while waiting for your ASIC?

 

I have spoken to people who "should know" and read the usual aviation magazines. My understanding was I didn't need one unless I visited an airport on the Secured list. Even then I didn't need one if I was under the supervision of an ASIC holder and according to some airports didn't need one if I was not passing from airside to landside (ie just landing and taking off - not using the terminal).

 

I got the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005 - 66,500 words. From Section 6.55 Exercise of privileges of flight crew licences etc (page 242 of the Word version)

 

(1) A person who holds a security designated authorisation must not perform a duty that is essential to the operation of an aircraft while the aircraft is in Australian territory if the Secretary:

 

(a) has determined that the person has an adverse aviation security status; and

 

(b) has given a copy of the determination to the person.

 

Penalty: 20 penalty units.

 

Note A pilot licence, a flight engineer licence and a special pilot licence are security designated authorisations — see regulation 1.08 and the Act, section 74G.

 

(2) Subject to subregulation (4), a person who is over 18, and holds a security designated authorisation, must not perform a duty that is essential to the operation of an aircraft while the aircraft is in Australian territory unless:

 

(a) his or her aviation security status check is current; or

 

(b) he or she has requested an aviation security status check.

 

The Regulations can be found here:

 

ComLaw Legislative Instrument Compilations - Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005 (SLI 2005 No. 18)

 

This seems to say you cannot fly an aircraft without "a security status check" - is this the AVID or ASIC?

 

For those of us who are dual citizens (PPL/RAA cert) the CASA FAQs are confusing:

 

I am a CASA licensed pilot but I fly under a sport or recreational aviation organisation such as Recreational Aviation Australia (RA-Aus). How can I apply?

 

 

 

If you fly with one of the sport or recreational aviation associations such as Recreational Aviation Australia (RA-Aus) and you don't use your CASA licence, you should obtain your new or renewal ASIC from one of the other ASIC issuing bodies such as AOPA, RA-Aus or Aviation ID Australia.

 

So what happens if you want to fly GA again - is the non CASA ASIC unsuitable? Am I only able to get my ASIC through CASA if I am flying GA?

 

I'll leave the AVID for another thread.

 

Confused as ever

 

Sue

 

 

[Derby]

If you work in the marine fields you need a AMIC but and it's a big but it lasts five (5) years . Go figure.

 

Rory

 

 

[Skyhog]

Sue,

 

I sent a copy of my RAAus ASIC to CASA with my GA student pilots license application. It all came back approved without any hassles. Since then whilst flying GA aircraft, I've been asked to show it close-up a couple of times. As long as it is in date it doesn't seem to matter who issued it.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I am going out out on a limb here, (wheres my lawyer). ID cards are a crock of XXXX, we used to stick another photo over our photo, same size as the original, but not the picture of us.I dont mean a picture of another person, i mean, one guy put a picture of mickey mouse over his photo.Another guy put a picture of his dog over his photo.This is not to pick on the person who is looking at the ID, it was to check security, or lack of it. It was to show that, ID, by visual checking doesnt realy work, in the real world. What happens is, that people get complacent, they are told to look for certain things.IE- date on the asic. After looking at the first few 100 or so ID's, they become REALY complacent. I am as some people are aware, ex- RAAF, ex- BAE systems, then called British Aerospace.I also was a security guard for Chubb Security, As a Armoured Vehicle operator, IE- servicing ATMS and doing re-carrys etc.I have done the picture swap on all of my Id,s. NO ONE LOOKS AT IT, BANKS ETC.Having said that, if you go through the same guard house, or go to, the same bank, week in week out, they will know you from, having seen you before, then generally, they wont look at you ID.I wanted to clear that up, because i have walked into places i have never been to and have never been picked up on a docted ID.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Good one Dave... and you are quite correct. One staff member where I work, a recent immigrant from Britain, challenged Anna Bligh and her entourage to produce their ASICS... He received hearty pats on the back for weeks afterwards.I have pulled plain clothes Police Officers up and challenged them to produce it... Felt quite good to see the ball on the other foot..."You're in my world now Officer!" He he he

N.B. Politicians and their entourage, Plain Clothes Police and members of the military are apparently "allowed" to wander wherever they wish at airports with no ASIC... Go figure? I know some of you may say "Why should the military display ASICS when they already have security clearance?" BUT... It is a bit strange that people wearing military uniform are unlikely to be looked at twice at our airports when anyone can purchase a uniform from a disposals store... I regularly see aircraft land, the military crews hop out and bypass security... who is to know if they are "ours" or the "enemy"???

Hi winsor, you can ask them to show their military ID, if you wish to.They wont have a problem with it, or they shouldnt.Same as police.

 

 

[icebob]

Hi Winsor68,

 

also add to your list civilians in Department of Defence from Technical Offier 1 and above.

 

 

[winsor68]

I am going out out on a limb here, (wheres my lawyer). ID cards are a crock of XXXX, we used to stick another photo over our photo, same size as the original, but not the picture of us.I dont mean a picture of another person, i mean, one guy put a picture of mickey mouse over his photo.Another guy put a picture of his dog over his photo.This is not to pick on the person who is looking at the ID, it was to check security, or lack of it. It was to show that, ID, by visual checking doesnt realy work, in the real world. What happens is, that people get complacent, they are told to look for certain things.IE- date on the asic. After looking at the first few 100 or so ID's, they become REALY complacent. I am as some people are aware, ex- RAAF, ex- BAE systems, then called British Aerospace.I also was a security guard for Chubb Security, As a Armoured Vehicle operator, IE- servicing ATMS and doing re-carrys etc.I have done the picture swap on all of my Id,s. NO ONE LOOKS AT IT, BANKS ETC.Having said that, if you go through the same guard house, or go to, the same bank, week in week out, they will know you from, having seen you before, then generally, they wont look at you ID.I wanted to clear that up, because i have walked into places i have never been to and have never been picked up on a docted ID.

Ahhhh... So it was you guys!!! We were warned about this in regards to ASICS... Seems someone had stuck a photo of Osama Bin Laden over their photo... A big no no according to those in authority.

 

 

[sain]

Hi Winsor68,also add to your list civilians in Department of Defence from Technical Offier 1 and above.

Actually they have to be "in the course of their duties" - if they arn't there for work they need the ASIC (or maratime equiv). Same with all the military/police stuff.

 

Wasn't there something in the ASIC crap that the person inspecting the cards had to have an Inspectors card? And fines could be imposed if they wernt?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I work for a big defence supplier and have appropriate national security clearances for the work....means nothing when comes to ASIC still have to pay the $ to have all the checks done which should come up on the first one as defence clearance held no further checking required.........Easy outcome for gov $$$. Its fiendishly clever really, ASIC= be seen to be doing something plus it has cost recovery so didnt cost the gov anything in real terms to implement. Your and my ASIC no doubt provides that nano increase in "feelings of goodness" for your neighbour who is clearly clueless about where the real risk will come from....it wasnt a 300kg ultralight, or even anything available in the GA fleet that brought down the towers in NY, yet we are tared with the same brush!

 

So endeth the preaching to the choir!

 

Andy