Missing Sting Ultralight-Goulburn

[Guest pelorus32]

Further to my last, I just came home from work and had a look at another forum. The last message in there is interesting.

 

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258860

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Student Pilot]

I don't worry about prune anymore Mike, there's a minority of idiots there spewing hatred and vitriol. A few years ago I looked a fair bit at prune, as somebody who has been employed and employed others in Aviation for more than a few years. Every time I disagreed or had a different opinion I was attacked and howled down. There were some very interesting folks there with lots of knowledge but the crap was too much. Now I stick to sites like this one were people ENJOY Aviation.

 

 

[Admin]

This is what was posted

 

BUT PLEASE NOTE THIS HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED

 

 

 

Update from RA-Aus this morning.

 

 

 

Aircraft engine failed as a result of either, no fuel, no oil, or no water (Rotax 912's are water and air cooled). Actual reason to be determined over investigation.

 

 

 

Aircraft was on the lee side of a hill with a 30 knot tail wind.

 

 

 

Aircraft clipped trees as it approached the selected landing field. Some wreckage found near trees quite a distance away.

 

The chute either was deployed very late in the piece or upon impact and because of the 30 knot winds, the aircraft was dragged near 500+ metres further into the open field, thus making it look like a forced landing gone wrong on the face of it.

 

 

 

Wreckage located 8.9 kms from the field "practically" in the circuit area.

 

A very unfortunate event but at this stage seemingly not a problem with the aircraft as such. Pilot and passenger were on a "test" flight, however the exact nature of the "testing" that was to take place is still unknown; ie hangar doors were left open.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

SP, I'm a little off topic here but I agree with you 100%. Don't read too much into what people say/speculate on those forums as a heap of them are complete morons.I had the same problem with the Sydney Airport Message board (which is 100 times worse than PPrune). Would share knowledge/info/ideas and if someone disagreed...look out. The mods were no better either so this (and my love for recreational flying) is why I am here.This has to be the best message board I have ever been (and probably will be) a member of. :)

 

 

[Ben Longden]

To find out what the cause of the incident was, through the appropriate channels, especially considering the investigative resources is the best way to unravel the mystery of this terrible incident.

 

Theories have no place when the facts can be uncovered to reveal the truth.

 

What is the real tragedy is the loss of two highly skilled aviators, and the terrible loss to their families.

 

Like everyone, I would like to know what happened - but then again, so would the families.

 

Ben

 

 

[Admin]

Ben

 

Everyone else I have been told that in reference to "Update from RA-Aus this morning" is that nothing official has been released and that statement is just hearsay.

 

What I can say is the Police Report that was read to me states that:

 

1. Piston through side of block

 

2. Aircraft hit trees

 

3. Chute deployed on impact

 

4. Aircraft dragged approx 500 metres from impact due to chute catching wind

 

NOTE: These types of Police Reports are based on Accident Scene Observations and are NOT on any investigative analysis.

 

It is a "policy" of this site not to discuss any fatal accidents until a full investigative analysis and a report on findings has been released.

 

However, it is strongly encouraged for everyone to openly discuss in one of the appropriate forums, without referencing any accident that a report has not been released on, such things as "looking after your engine" or "What to do if your engine blows in flight" etc etc.

 

Sorry to sound harsh on this guys but I do so out of respect for those that have met with an unfortunate accident and their families and loved ones and I am sure heaven forbid that anything like this happens to any of you that you would be pleased to know that there isn't any finger pointing or that inaccurate assumptions are made here on this site.

 

I do hope you understand - with respect!

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Well said Ian :)

 

 

[Guest mcoates]

Where did you get the details of the Piston through block reference ?? and the Police Report reference ?? Just interested as i have been away for the past week and looking for more info. Thanks Michael Coates

 

 

[Admin]

Michael, I will PM you

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I'm interested in the "Piston through the block" reference as a 912 has seperate cylinders and heads, thus the pistons don't go through block as such? correct me if I am wrong? The general rule of thumb is that if an engine runs out of oil the piston will go through the block.

 

 

[Admin]

NOTE: These types of Police Reports are based on Accident Scene Observations and are NOT on any investigative analysis. It is a "policy" of this site not to discuss any fatal accidents until a full investigative analysis and a report on findings has been released.

 

However, it is strongly encouraged for everyone to openly discuss in one of the appropriate forums, without referencing any accident that a report has not been released on, such things as "looking after your engine" or "What to do if your engine blows in flight" etc etc.

........

[Guest danda]

Two men have lost there lives and that's a tragedy, any lose of life is sad to say the least however I see something morbid in all the speculation as to the the events that lead to this horrifying loss of live we would do far better to think about the family's left behind to cope with their pain and if any of you know them give them your love and support any thing else is unhelpfully let's wait for the facts and learn from that.

 

Don

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

Whilst it is important to ackonwledge the sensitivities relating to family and loved ones ,I wonder how important it is to access all relevant(timely) details of an accident be it pilot error or airframe/engine failure.

 

I know of at least two fatal recreational accidents , details of which APPEAR not to have been publicised.....(I hope I'm wrong with that opinion). Knowing the circumstances of these accidents has contributed to my own flying safety, and doubtless would to many other recreational flyers.

 

JL

 

 

[Admin]

I fully agree John and I will be striving to follow up on any information that I can to let everyone know as soon as it becomes definite and proved and not just surmised.

 

In regards to this matter I have been told more information (eg the police observation report) that I can post as it is proven but anything that I hear that has not been proven, that may have been the cause and will help others to stay safe anyway, I will ensure a post by either myself or some other member who came across the information to put a post in another forum here as a general post unrelated to the incident - do you think that is fair?

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

A good point JL!

 

The 'time honoured' method of dealing with accident reporting happens at a few levels.

 

Initially it is usually possible to get out a brief description without offending any 'sub judice' situations or allocating blame. How well that goes depends greatly on the quality of the reporting but really it will address three areas to initially put minds at some rest by indicating probable areas of cause:

 

1. Operations (pilot error or incapacity)

 

2. Maintenance related (engine stopped)

 

3. Design fault and/or fatigue failure.

 

The latter is the one most people are initially interested in and the Airworthiness guys/manufacturers are usually very fast out of the traps on that one.

 

Full findings may take years to come out and may be accurate but have done nothing for flight safety in the meantime. I am still involved with a Coronial Inquest on a double fatal that is now four years old!

 

Tony

 

 

[PaulN]

In regards to this matter I have been told more information (eg the police observation report) that I can post as it is proven but anything that I hear that has not been proven, that may have been the cause and will help others to stay safe anyway, I will ensure a post by either myself or some other member who came across the information to put a post in another forum here as a general post unrelated to the incident - do you think that is fair?

I don't follow what you're saying here Ian :;)5:.

 

Paul

 

 

[Admin]

Paul, hey it's Friday ;) - perhaps I am just showing signs of stress by not having my new aircraft here yet

 

What I was trying to say is for example I heard "hearsay" from a member that heard from someone else that an accident was caused because a wheel nut wasn't tightened up after a puncture repair. I would either myself or get that person who told me that info to put a post in say the General Discussion or Aircraft Knowledge Base Forums about checking wheel nuts after removing a wheel with also something like get someone else to confirm that the nut is done up - something like this rather then to have in a thread about an incident that the accident was "possibly" caused by the pilot not doing up the wheel nut - does that make sense?

 

Or is this type of action to unproven facts relating to an incident the wrong way for these forums to go?

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Ian,

 

You are taking a very sane and practical approach to the situation! What you propose gets points of attention out promptly without any accusations of blame.

 

The information is therefore of valid and immediate use. Tightening up wheel nuts may be bloody obvious but complacency is the biggest killer in flying. Even grass root reminders go a long way to reminding us all of that!

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I just hope that it's properly investigated by someone with the appropriate experience and skills. It is a pity that as a general rule the ATSB don't investigate RA-Aus incidents, particularly when the aircraft is a certified model.