LSA Certification

[slartibartfast]

Great news for training establishments.

 

Garry Morgan is proceeding with LSA certification - initially for the Sierra and the Cougar.

 

These planes will be perfect for training. Low wing, low cost, easy maintenance, high performance, plenty of space and tough as nails.

 

This will also mean a 600kg MTOW.

 

Another reason they will be perfect for schools - long legs. They are great aircraft for touring. They will take 2 people, 100 litres of fuel and still have spare weight to fill the copious storage areas with stuff. So you can rent them out to ex-students who want to start spreading their wings.

 

Of course, I'm biased. You should make your own judgement. Call Garry and have a chat. Even better - go for a fly.

 

The certification is not expected to take long. Steve Bell is all over it like rivets on a Sportstar.

 

 

[BigPete]

.......certification is not expected to take long. Steve Bell is all over it like rivets on a Sportstar.

You should have said "like spots on a Cheetah"

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[pdriussi]

Any recent updates on the certification process?

 

 

[HEON]

Got a ride in their 2+2...very impressive

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Great news Slarti- already talking to Garry last week, can't get to get into the Sierra.

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

load test sierra 100 wing

 

the load testing was done this week under supervision or our ennginer, At 6G the wing spar still hadent gone into yeild state. The wing held at 8.5G load. After the test the wing had no perment damage and looked good as new, We then cut holes into the skin to inspect the spar web, there was no rippling or damage to any part of the wing it self. in the testing the spar end that goes into the fuse buckled at 8.5G

 

The fuselarge had a 600lb twisting load aplied to the rear end, not even any skin ripplies where seen in the test. also the a test for the drage spar was performed with out any problems. the fuse strength is 3.5 x the 6G requirment before the 20th skin is allowered for. In the fuse tested we have left out the dianognal tubes in the bottom eccept the the fire wall nose leg brace.

 

This aircraft will the strongest trainer avaible, with great controlabailty at all speeds, good cross wind handling, and most of all easy to fly, and not wear you out on long trips.

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

Hi BlackRod,

 

Aircraft strength and various "V" speeds is a complex subject, and has come up here quite a few times. I suggest you make a nice big coffee and sit down in a quiet corner for a while and plough through John Brandon's excellent tutorials on the subject. eg:Airspeed (xhtml w3c 12/09) .

 

A basic rule of thumb for the types of aircraft we fly, (and I'll get pedants jumping all over me for this) is that VNE is usually limited by flutter or component strength, and is one of the few speeds quoted in TAS.

 

Turbulence Penetration Speed (which strictly speaking is a different speed to Va, whic is defined as "design manoeuvring speed") is related to the stall speed. Being very simplistic, the idea is that the wing stalls before it can generate enough force to break the aeroplane. So if you have a high stall speed, you can hit a vertical gust at a higher speed, because the wing stalls earlier. So the lower the designer makes the stall speed, the lower the Turb Penetration Speed becomes.

 

Some larger GA aircraft (eg: Cessna 182) will quote two different Turbulence Penetration Speeds. The one for MTOW is higher than the one for Minimum weight.

 

Aircraft structure and aerodynamic loading is a complex subject, with a lot of the lessons we've learned since Wilbur and Orville being written in blood, but fortunately for us nowadays, follow the advice and limitations quoted in the POH and all should be OK.

 

Regards,

 

Bruce

 

ps: Just for interest:

 

Flutter - I've seen carbon fibre model aircraft built to be able to withstand over 20G, explode in midair due to flutter.

 

G Loading and Turbulence speeds - When Grumman were designing the Bearcat ni the mid 40's, they initially designed the outer section of the wings to break off when the pilot exceeded about 7G. The idea was that the shortened wing would then stop creating as much lift (ie: force) and save the entire wing from being torn off. A similar concept to turbulence penetration speeds and how the stall saves the wing before it breaks the aircraft. The idea worked perfectly, but was eventually dropped due to operational difficulties.

 

"As a weight-saving concept the designers came up with detachable wingtips; if the g-force exceeded 7.5 g then the tips would be allowed to snap off, leaving a perfectly flyable aircraft still capable of carrier landing.

 

 

 

While this worked very well under carefully controlled conditions in flight and on the ground, in the field, where aircraft were repetitively stressed by landing on carriers and since the wings were slightly less carefully made in the factories, there was a possibility that only one wingtip would break away with the possibility of the aircraft crashing.[6]

 

 

 

This was replaced with an explosives system to blow the wings off together, which also worked well, however this ended when a ground technician died due to accidental triggering. In the end the wings were reinforced and the aircraft limited to 7.5 g.[7]"

 

 

[Tomo]

Incidentally, I noticed the Arion Lightning with a similar (low) Turbulence Penetration Speed and a Vne of 180 knots. So, perhaps not that unusual.

Whoever takes a Lightning to 180kts has got more bravery than me. They're a handful at 150kts, and will start to tail flutter after that, scary stuff.

 

 

[johndl]

If anyone wins lotto soon, could they PLEASE buy me a Cheetah (worth a try) !

 

 

[Tomo]

Good to see you were up catching early worms this morning Tomo :-). Even the birds slept in around here as the weather was nothing short of foul. Gale force winds and driving, freezing rain.I'm very envious that you've been for a flight in a Lightning. Perhaps, rather than my hijacking this thread, you could start a new thread and give us one of your entertaining essays on the Lightning. What it's like to take off & land and what it's like in flight. Be very interesting on a comparison with your experience with the the Cheetah Sierra 100.

No worries Don, It has been a while since, so I'll wait till I go in it again and write a report on it. (try and remember to video it as well!).

 

I can tell you though, it handles no where near the Sierra, the Lightning's tail isn't big enough, so if you lift it off at the wrong speed, you have no elevator control, and you'll do a wheelie and stall. Same with landing, bring it down just off the deck and wait for it to land, any sooner than when it is ready is painful for all concerned, and too late you loose elevator effectivness.

 

I should be around it in the next couple weeks, so I'll see what I can do.

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

first cert. sierra 200 avaible in about 6 weeks

 

All paper work will be complete in a week and delivered to RAA for there processing.

 

Fully adjustable rudder peddles are fitted for training, a wider fuse for all sizes, and a gas spring on the nose leg. The sierra 200 will be one of the most robust training aircraft on the market, the sierra has been designed for very rough handling, and will take rough treament in the field for years. It has been shown that where little damage has been done to the aircraft, most others would be written off.

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

name as is

 

Yes Black Rod the cheetah stays, the sierra 200 for the 24rego, the 200 fuse is wider. 2"at the steel frame, normally it is 1"narrower at the shoulders, but the 200 is 1"wider at the shoulders + the 2"in the steel frame.when a kit builder wants a wider fuse we will supply the 200 fuse, as now we have the set up , and all the tubes are cut to size.

 

We hope to have our paper work in to RAA next week ,

 

You are not far from Taree so when you go for a fly, come up and ill take you for a ride in the sierra.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Gary let us know when paperworks done, i'll drop down to see as discussed before. My sister looks after tourism with the council so no biggie to stay a few days. Well done for all your hard work - another hard working aussie rising to the top!

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

All the paper work is now in the RAA hands, in the next month we should have the Sierra 200 passed to put a 24 - on it . As a trainer the 200 fusalarge is wider 3", and the rudder peddles are fully adjustable 300mm foward and back, we have fitted a 2.2 jab in it for running costs in a school, still cruise 110kts. Goes to the paint shop next week.We will offer a very good discount price for schools.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Excellent work - congrats on getting to this stage!

 

 

[Gribble]

Great News! This certainly puts the sierra at the top of the list of planes ill look at building/buying once the mightly PPL is done. Aussie made and 110-130kt cruise sounds great! And I also think it looks sexy, in that man to machine kind of way.... you know.

 

Now, just need to find and extra $200 a week to burn, stupid mortgage......

 

Congrats again,

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

now type cert.

 

We now have recieved Type certifcation for the sierra . Thanks to Steve Bell for his quick work and help with this, Thanks steve

 

 

[Spin]

Congratulations Garry, good to hear of a local manufacturing business getting ahead. I look forward to seeing many more of those good looking machines in the skies.

 

Incidentally, although we may not always agree with RA-Aus politically, I have to give them a big thumbs up for their administration, each time I've changed something or added another rating, their response has been quick and accurate.:thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Well done Gary, what a huge achievement. Now, get onto all those flying schools and sell it for all it's worth.

 

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi!

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

sierra 200

 

Yes the MTOW will go to 600kg. Our engineer singed it out at 7.5G LIMIT load. it has lots of extra strength/rivets etc for a long hard life, of bashing it down the runway for flying schools.

 

 

[Guest Toally87]

Sounds Good, congrats on the Cert. I know what i'll be putting in my flying school when the time comes....

 

I have the feeling that the Seirra will be around for years to come...

 

There's a mounting number of people in northern Queensland just waiting for a cheetah or seirra to venture up this far...

 

Congrats again

 

Dave Toal

 

 

[Tomo]

There's a mounting number of people in northern Queensland just waiting for a cheetah or seirra to venture up this far...

Sounds we got a few trips planned then Dave.... can't wait for yours to turn up down here!

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

David,

 

The limit Load is the in flight structural limit, safe load, an ulitmate load is when it breaks.

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

We have now done a weight and balance, empty weight 299.5kg MTOW will go to 600kg +

 

 

[thommo]

299.5kg,s is very light.