Whisky IV plans

[FlyingVizsla]

Have been looking at the Asso Aeri Whisky (or Wisky) IV - nice retracts. Unfortunately the price of the plans has gone up from $450 US to $935 US including postage. We were originally going to buy the plans mainly to look at and consider, but at over $1,000 AU we are taking a breath first.

 

Has anyone else any more information on this aircraft? Designer G. Vidor. Ease of build, handling etc?

 

Sue

 

Photos: Asso Aeri Asso IV Whisky Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

 

 

[Matt]

A friend of ours, Warren Canning, is currently building one on his farm at Kyneton.

 

Warren is the son of Clive Canning - author of Charlie Mike Charlie which recounts Clive's story of building the first Thorp T-18 in Australia and flying it around Australia and then to England and back - a great read!

 

I can put you in touch with him if you'd like.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Thanks - could you PM me with his contact etc or we could send ours for you to pass on. Husband is away until Tuesday and usually takes his time with these things.

 

He has been toying with retract design for a while, did a bit with RC models and now wants to do a full scale job. Loves improving on things. The Rans took 6 years, so I am not rushing out to get my rectractable undercarriage endorsement just yet. I haven't asked him if this will fit into the RAAus or GA.

 

The photo in Leisure Aviation Directory 2004-2005 is different to the one I found and linked to in my first post. I am hoping the design has not been changed - he particularly wanted the sliding canopy rather than the bubble canopy.

 

The plans are available through Sylvia Littner in Canada but she has no control over the designer's charges and these have recently gone up - should have ordered them when we first decided on it!

 

Sue

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Whisky IV plans are on their way from the States. The adventure begins....

 

Sue

 

 

[Robert]

Hi FlyingVizsla

 

I am building a champion 5 or Asso V from plans

 

It is becoming a long drawn out process but getting there slowly

 

There are some good web sits on Asso V with heaps of pics

 

Not quite the same as the Whisky IV but some of the methods are the same

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest Mark Mac]

Hi, any luck with the Whisky IV Plans?

 

Interested to know what you think of the quality etc...

 

I am tossing up whether to go for a Fixede U/C version of Whisky IV or regress to the Fisher R80 Tiger Moth.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

That is one sweet looking aeroplane!:thumb_up:

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Hi Mark,

 

The plans are 'blueprints' with about 30 pages of different sizes. Very few notes but most are in English as well as Italian. Very little instruction - it is up to the builder to work out the sequence and method. There were a few mistakes but other builders have pointed them out for us. There is a manual with some construction and maintenance for the completed aircraft. We have been sent some pictures of aircraft under construction. We have not started - still thinking and looking at materials and suppliers.

 

Any more you want to know - ask and we'll see what we have.

 

Sue

 

 

 

 

[beckd]

Hi Mark,The plans are 'blueprints' with about 30 pages of different sizes. Very few notes but most are in English as well as Italian. Very little instruction - it is up to the builder to work out the sequence and method. There were a few mistakes but other builders have pointed them out for us. There is a manual with some construction and maintenance for the completed aircraft. We have been sent some pictures of aircraft under construction. We have not started - still thinking and looking at materials and suppliers.

Any more you want to know - ask and we'll see what we have.

 

Sue

Hello,

how is the building of your Asso Whisky going ? I am considering buying the plans and would like your opinion of them.

 

Thanks

 

 

[turboplanner]

Brilliant modern looking aircraft!

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Hello,how is the building of your Asso Whisky going ? I am considering buying the plans and would like your opinion of them.

Thanks

The plans are not for the faint hearted. We decided not to build because the maximum take-off weight is lower than we wanted. In Australia retractable undercarriage can't go into the ultralight category so it requires a PPL to fly, which was another consideration.

You need to study the plans thoroughly. There is no instructions on where to start, the process to follow, or exact materials to use. A lot of it is left up to you, including selection and use of tools and working out how to achieve the end product. If you have experience building it will be easier. The finished aircraft as an impressive look. It is mainly wood and birch ply with a few parts in chrome-moly, flaps, ailerons and rudder are dacron covered. The usual engine is a VW 80HP, wooden propeller, 50 litres (in 2 tanks), dual controls, tandem seating.

 

Sue

 

 

[pylon500]

I was not aware of any restriction to the use of retractable undercarriage on ultralights, there are actually a few out there.

 

It is an endorsement, along with variable pitch and amphibian, (floatplane with retracts).

 

I've looked at the ASSO plans before, your right, not for beginners...

 

Arthur.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

Are you saying it can't be registered with RA Aus, Sue? You do know don't you, we already have retractables on our register? And there is a retractable endorsement we can get on our pilot's certificate... I guess I'm missing something.

 

 

 

[Deskpilot]

FWIW. This question has come up before and it seems that many of us are not aware that retracts are allowed. I must admit that I thought only fixed gear was covered by RAA 'Ultralight' regs. Therefore I ask, can some-one please point Sue, myself and other to the exact rules which apply.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So there is the practicality issues if not absolute rules. The practicalities are that retracts arent generally as robust as fixed gear and at teh same time we generally fly from fields that lack that 300ft wide perfect bitupave finish.... That isnt to say all our airfields are lacking, just that surface will need to be a greater consideration than it otherwise would be in determining where and if you go somewhere

 

Andy

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

And then there's the cost against benefit. At the speeds we normally operate at, tucking the dunlops away looks neat as,,, but are we going to get a big enough increase in airspeed and reduced fuel consumption to justify the increased purchase and maintenance costs?

 

 

[beckd]

The plans are not for the faint hearted. We decided not to build because the maximum take-off weight is lower than we wanted. In Australia retractable undercarriage can't go into the ultralight category so it requires a PPL to fly, which was another consideration. You need to study the plans thoroughly. There is no instructions on where to start, the process to follow, or exact materials to use. A lot of it is left up to you, including selection and use of tools and working out how to achieve the end product. If you have experience building it will be easier. The finished aircraft as an impressive look. It is mainly wood and birch ply with a few parts in chrome-moly, flaps, ailerons and rudder are dacron covered. The usual engine is a VW 80HP, wooden propeller, 50 litres (in 2 tanks), dual controls, tandem seating.

 

Sue

Sue,

thanks for the information about the plan's ,it is too bad that they are not builder friendly because it is such a great looking aircraft. Did the information you recieved say anything about where you can purchase the canopy, cowling ?

 

And were there any full size templates ?

 

Thanks

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Hi Beckd

 

I got the Whiskey IV plans out again. The canopy is 3mm plexiglass with a full sized template for the front curve (you have to work out the back and sides yourself). It is embedded in the fuse construction plans so you can't lay it out to cut. There are no suppliers listed so I guess if you can't do it yourself you do the measurements and take it to someone who can. There are 24 sheets in the Plans - eleven are 1:1 scale, the rest are 1:5, 1:10 or NS. Few dimensions; so you have to scale it for yourself or measure & calculate.

 

One of the sheets is "Construction Instructions" with a few drawings on good, difficult & passable ply joins & glue joints, a wing jig & table dimensions (5800 x 800mm) and the following text:

 

Construct a table to measurements indicated

 

Build the two fuselage sides and frames 1-2-3

 

Build the wing main spar caps shown full size on the assembly drawing

 

Build the ribs of the wing, vertical and horizontal tail

 

Build the ribs of rear spar - flaps and aileron spars and the tail spars

 

Assemble the fuselage

 

Assemble the tail surfaces

 

Assemble the wing

 

That's about as much instruction as you get, apart from notes on the plans eg "use only AN or MS hardware" "TIG weld only"

 

There are builders working from these plans, so if you decide to go ahead there are people who have gone before you and may have the answers.

 

Sue

 

 

[beckd]

Hi BeckdI got the Whiskey IV plans out again. The canopy is 3mm plexiglass with a full sized template for the front curve (you have to work out the back and sides yourself). It is embedded in the fuse construction plans so you can't lay it out to cut. There are no suppliers listed so I guess if you can't do it yourself you do the measurements and take it to someone who can. There are 24 sheets in the Plans - eleven are 1:1 scale, the rest are 1:5, 1:10 or NS. Few dimensions; so you have to scale it for yourself or measure & calculate.

One of the sheets is "Construction Instructions" with a few drawings on good, difficult & passable ply joins & glue joints, a wing jig & table dimensions (5800 x 800mm) and the following text:

 

Construct a table to measurements indicated

 

Build the two fuselage sides and frames 1-2-3

 

Build the wing main spar caps shown full size on the assembly drawing

 

Build the ribs of the wing, vertical and horizontal tail

 

Build the ribs of rear spar - flaps and aileron spars and the tail spars

 

Assemble the fuselage

 

Assemble the tail surfaces

 

Assemble the wing

 

That's about as much instruction as you get, apart from notes on the plans eg "use only AN or MS hardware" "TIG weld only"

 

There are builders working from these plans, so if you decide to go ahead there are people who have gone before you and may have the answers.

 

Sue

Sue,

thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question. I consider myself to be handy in my workshop- but when it comes to building a plane, I want just a "tad" more instruction than these plans offer !

 

Thanks again !!!

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

These are specs that came with the plans for the Whisky IV - with a 80HP VW engine (my conversions from lb and mph).:-

 

Empty weight = 282kg

 

MTOW = 480kg

 

Max horizontal speed 140knots, Cruising at 75% 113kts

 

Stall 37kts,

 

Wing loading 42.9kg/m2

 

This means it will not fit into the Australian CAO 95-10 (no limit on number or type of engines; 300kg MTOW, 55kts, stall 45kts, wing loading 30kg/m2) registration 10-, without modification.

 

It will fit into the 19- category CAO 95-55 (Max 1 engine, 1 propeller, 2 seat; 544kg MTOW, 45kt stall, wing loading 65kg/m2 - taken from CAO 101.28 non certified engine, 6% flap area)

 

As to the question of retracts - the earlier literature that I read seemed to indicate that retractable undercarriage was only available to seaplanes. But I note that in the RAA "Pre-flight Final Inspection" form does mention retractable landing gear and there is an endorsement for it. I can't find the article I read.

 

On this site is an explanation of the RAA aircraft registration categories. Under Resources - Tutorials - Sport Aviation Legislative Framework. Or click here: http://www.recreationalflying.com/tutorials/regulations/regulations.html. I would love a simple table of what is in/out for each category. The 544kg or 600kg seems confusing with the Tech Manual, CAOs and articles all reading different.

 

I hope someone can complete a Whisky IV and show us what we are missing.

 

Sue

 

 

[beckd]

These are specs that came with the plans for the Whisky IV - with a 80HP VW engine (my conversions from lb and mph).:-Empty weight = 282kg

MTOW = 480kg

 

Max horizontal speed 140knots, Cruising at 75% 113kts

 

Stall 37kts,

 

Wing loading 42.9kg/m2

 

This means it will not fit into the Australian CAO 95-10 (no limit on number or type of engines; 300kg MTOW, 55kts, stall 45kts, wing loading 30kg/m2) registration 10-, without modification.

 

It will fit into the 19- category CAO 95-55 (Max 1 engine, 1 propeller, 2 seat; 544kg MTOW, 45kt stall, wing loading 65kg/m2 - taken from CAO 101.28 non certified engine, 6% flap area)

 

As to the question of retracts - the earlier literature that I read seemed to indicate that retractable undercarriage was only available to seaplanes. But I note that in the RAA "Pre-flight Final Inspection" form does mention retractable landing gear and there is an endorsement for it. I can't find the article I read.

 

On this site is an explanation of the RAA aircraft registration categories. Under Resources - Tutorials - Sport Aviation Legislative Framework. Or click here: http://www.recreationalflying.com/tutorials/regulations/regulations.html. I would love a simple table of what is in/out for each category. The 544kg or 600kg seems confusing with the Tech Manual, CAOs and articles all reading different.

 

I hope someone can complete a Whisky IV and show us what we are missing.

 

Sue

Has anyone found a good website showing "the building" of a Asso Whisky ?

Thanks

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Here's an article from an Australian builders group http://www.saaa20.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/ht_060_oct06.pdf

 

There are some YouTube videos, but mainly completed, flying aircraft.

 

There are some builders in Australia - but they tend to beaver away on their own. Best you will get are photos.

 

Others in the USA.

 

Sue

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Sue, you're not alone with regard to retractable undercarriages. Our rules seem to be Double Standards where the basics say Fixed Legs only but then there's the retracts endorsement as well. Equally confused.

 

Just looked at the earlier posts again and I see that I've just repeated what I said before and no-body, as yet, has commented on. Come on folks, what's your understanding of the rules, never mind the building constraints.