Would you tell other pilots what to do?

[Guest burbles1]

I'm wondering what you could communicate if, say, you were on final and another aircraft lined up? The obvious response is to broadcast 'go-around' - but what if the other A/C still commenced its takeoff? Are you legally entitled to state 'Cessna taking off runway 36, abandon takeoff' or something similar so that you could go around safely?

 

I've had another pilot taxiing to the runway ask me if I'm full stop or touch and go - but should broadcasts to other A/C be limited to questions (ie ask what is your intention), or can you advise?

 

 

[Simonflyer]

I dont advise people as Im responsible for my plane and the other person is responsible(or irresponsible) for theirs...When it comes to ATC there is wording where you can request, or require, but thats not really on topic.

 

If i were to see someone edging onto the runway, or making their enter/backtrack call while i was on final, i would immediately get in touch and re tell them that i was on final or short final and perhaps ask them if they were aware of my position.If you are on final they are not meant to be there(unless they got out there earlier) so a few things could be happening(they could be on the wrong freq or complete nuffers or anything in between)..

 

After that point if they continued to line up and still didnt wake up, i would go around keeping to the right hand side of the runway to keep an eye on them. I would also make them aware of where i was if i felt that they werent switched on to the situation

 

I dont know where your at with your flying, but when i first started flying the radio kind of freaked me out, but as ive gone on i try and communicate early and clearly particularly if i feel i might be in a similar position to another aircraft and am not visual..i tend to do it by stating my position height intentions etc and at least getting in touch. But as far as i know i cant, and its not helpful to try and get them to change what their doing.If its really dangerous, get the callsign if you can and report it, or if you know who it is have a quiet chat about it later on the ground, but first of all make the adjustment to avoid possible problems while you have the chance and are in control of the situation.

 

My two bobs worth..

 

 

[Guest check-in]

Legally you can not and should not attempt to influence another pilot-in-command. You are responsible for your own aircraft, and whether you have right of way or not, it behoves you to take avoiding action if necessary. Not to say you shouldn't approach him/her on the ground and politely (if he/she is bigger than you) or forcibly (if you reckon they deserve it and won't hit you) point out the error of their ways.

 

The only time I would consider making suggestions is if I heard another pilot in trouble e.g. lost or caught out by bad weather. But even then, I would need to carefully consider the ramifications if my suggestions went on the record and the other pilot still managed to crash.

 

The buck stops with the pilot-in-command.

 

 

[GraemeK]

Check-in's right - legally you can't. Only ATC can instruct a pilot what to do, and even then the PIC can override by stating "REQUIRE". Note that UNICOM and other CAGR operators are not ATC.

 

I've heard RPT pilots try to tell others what to do despite the above.

 

Asking another pilot his intentions is fine - I've often had to do it when I wasn't sure what they were up to, or where they'd forgotten to state intentions.

 

 

[Tomo]

The obvious response is to broadcast 'go-around' - but what if the other A/C still commenced its takeoff?

If for some reason the other aircraft is (sounds like) he is on a wrong freq, or hasn't a radio. And is taking off on you while your beginning your go around. It isn't really fun trying to guess what he/she has in mind! But it happens, so you can move to the dead side (right of strip usually) a bit and keep the runway and other aircraft in sight on the left of you. Technically speaking he/she should only conduct left turns near the circuit, so you'll always have him on the left. Then you start over again.

 

My 2 cents

 

Ps. I've heard of pilots asking another pilot for his intentions. I've done it myself, I figure there is no harm in asking... most people tell you what they're doing, but the odd one doesn't, and aviation and guessing, or assuming, isn't safe.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

so you can move to the dead side (right of strip usually) a bit and keep the runway and other aircraft in sight on the left of you.

Definitely. I was taught that whenever I do a go around (another aircraft, I've messed up the landing, whatever) to move to the right side of the runway so I can see the runway out of my left window and keep an eye on what's going on :)

 

 

[BigPete]

We had a situation here in Echuca about eight months ago when there were six :ah_oh: (yes, really) Gazelles all doing circuits. :thumb_up: The only way to get into the air was to "steal" i_dunno the runway and make the aircraft on base/final to go around.

 

Possession may be 9/10ths of the law, :big_grin: but it's only yours until someone takes it off you.

 

Love this flyin' game! :thumb_up:

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[icebob]

Hi big Pete,

 

know what you are on about here, in the late 1970's we had the same issue and two of us were at the hold point waiting and over the radio from someone unknown came " Kelo Uniform Uniform your time is up please return" he wa turning base he did a full stop and taxi back to the hanger and we both got off like robbers dogs!

 

Bob.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Check-in's right - legally you can't. Only ATC can instruct a pilot what to do, and even then the PIC can override by stating "REQUIRE". Note that UNICOM and other CAGR operators are not ATC.I've heard RPT pilots try to tell others what to do despite the above.

 

Asking another pilot his intentions is fine - I've often had to do it when I wasn't sure what they were up to, or where they'd forgotten to state intentions.

I read a article, i think it was Australian Flying, anyway it happened at Ballina, the author was flying circuits, then a RPT (virgin i think), decided to become ATC, in a CTAF R, and started telling everybody on the radio what he was doing and for everybody else to get out of the way.

 

 

[Vorticity]

I would say it depends if you are being productive or not. I can think of an occasin in casino when I was holding short of the active runway waiting for the local schools gazell doing circuits. I took no offence when I was told 'tecnam, feel free to jump on before us, we'll go long' . I see it to be just as rude of aircraft in the circuit not to let someone in over and over again as if that aircraft just pushed onto the center line. We all have to share the same airspace.

 

I have had people pull out while I'm in final. I would doubt anyone would be so rude as to do this on purpose, a quick going around call and full throttle keeping them in view isn't a huge deal.

 

Earlier post are right, 'councelling' an incinsiderate pilot should wait until you are back on the ground.

 

 

[facthunter]

telling the other pilot what to do.

 

You can't direct anyone, (as has been said), but it would be entirely reasonable to ask their intentions. This would give the opportunity for a response that would improve the likelihood of a safe® outcome.

 

eg. You are turning final. You advise aircraft that is lining up, of your position. He might respond "vacating runway", or "holding position" or "commencing take-off immediately".. All responses would give you a greater degree of certainty than you had before and facilitate your subsequent decisions.

 

I recall a situation I experienced, where I was on short final close to last light, and someone transmitted "ABC, Break LEFT." I immediately did that, missing a Parachutist by about a wingspan. Sometimes it pays to act and ask questions later. Nev

 

 

[Mazda]

I wouldn't tell them what to do, I'd advise them what I'm doing and possibly ask intentions. If no response, go around.

 

Darky, on going around, the normal procedure is to move over to the dead side of the circuit, not necessarily the right side. Also at the GAAPs there is an exception to go around on the live side due to parallel runway operations.

 

 

[Relfy]

I look at the circuit like entering a car-park and finals like putting your indicator on when a car in front is reversing out of a spot.

 

Snatch that spot...and it's road rage!

 

 

[Bidgee]

I had exactly this happen at Ballarat the other day. I was on final in a busy circuit with two 172 from the local training org (STATA) waiting to backtrack 18. I was more than a little surprised to see the lead AC enter and begin backtracking. I got on the radio and advised where I was, no response. Started getting a little irate and asked the AC intentions, no response. Landing light on, strobe on, another call - still no reply.

 

I suggested the pilot open their @*#^ eyes a bit and just then it lines up and blasts off, no call. Next thing one of the instructors gets on the radio and tells the student to get on the deck ASAP and report to HQ for reaming.

 

I got down without drama and plenty of margin but in hindsight I probably should have gone around but at the time I thought the safest place was behind the student than beside or in front of them.

 

Incidentally one of the school managers appeared when I was tying down and apologised which was unnecessary but good to see they keep and eye on things.

 

Scott

 

 

[Bidgee]

dont be too keen to give students a hard time.

I'm not. We've all been there and for me it wasnt that long ago. In fact I reckon I go out of my way to help less experienced pilots.

 

But seriously, do you think entering the runway while a plane is on final then launching like nothing happened and not using the radio at any stage is an acceptable standard for a solo pilot?

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Thanks all for your wise words.