Avmet plain language weather

[JayKay]

I just had a quick look to see what other countries are doing re plain english weather. I came across this METAR/TAF Information Page on the National Climatic Data Center - US Department of Commerce METAR Home Page

 

Quoting part of the text ...

 

"The conversion to a plain language format for thousands of domestic and international observations that are generated each hour of the day is impractical and would easily overwhelm our meteorological communication circuits. However, having now standardized to a considerable extent does allow computer programs to expand the "code" into plain language. However, if you are getting plain language reports, it is because the service you subscribe to (DUATS, WSI, Pan Am data, etc.) is providing that for you."

 

I then had a look at the "National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's National Weather Service" website ADDS - METARs

 

Typed in KCOS and selected METARs, TAFs, and RAW Format and got this ...

 

==============

 

KCOS 240554Z VRB03KT 10SM FEW085 18/04 A3040 RMK AO2 SLP208 T01830039 10278 20183 50013

 

KCOS 240520Z 2406/2506 VRB06KT P6SM SCT200

 

FM240900 VRB05KT P6SM FEW040 SCT200

 

FM241800 17012KT P6SM SCT080 SCT200

 

FM242200 20015KT P6SM VCTS SCT080CB BKN200

 

FM250200 10012KT P6SM SCT080 BKN200

 

==============

 

This time I selected "Translated" and got this ...

 

==============

 

METAR text: KCOS 240554Z VRB03KT 10SM FEW085 18/04 A3040 RMK AO2 SLP208 T01830039 10278 20183 50013

 

Conditions at: KCOS (COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, US) observed 0554 UTC 24 June 2010

 

Temperature: 18.3°C (65°F)

 

Dewpoint: 3.9°C (39°F) [RH = 38%]

 

Pressure (altimeter): 30.40 inches Hg (1029.5 mb)

 

[sea-level pressure: 1020.8 mb]

 

Winds: variable direction winds at 3 MPH (3 knots; 1.6 m/s)

 

Visibility: 10 or more miles (16+ km)

 

Ceiling: at least 12,000 feet AGL

 

Clouds: few clouds at 8500 feet AGL

 

Weather: no significant weather observed at this time

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Forecast for: KCOS (COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, US)

 

Text: KCOS 240520Z 2406/2506 VRB06KT P6SM SCT200

 

Forecast period: 0600 to 0900 UTC 24 June 2010

 

Forecast type: FROM: standard forecast or significant change

 

Winds: variable direction winds at 7 MPH (6 knots; 3.1 m/s)

 

Visibility: 6 or more miles (10+ km)

 

Clouds: scattered clouds at 20000 feet AGL

 

Weather: no significant weather forecast for this period

 

<snip> (sorry about the loss of format - check out the webpage to see how clear it looks)

 

==============

 

All done by a government agency in the United States. I note that other government agencies are also providing this service in other countries.

 

I think the precedent is set. Why aren't we doing it? I see no reason why the RAA couldn't purchase a translator and provide it as a service on their website. This way they own the code, control maintenance and quality of the product.

 

Ianboag is not the first person to have written the translation software. A number of commercial packages are available for purchase and have been on the market for some time. Ianboag is the first person (to the best of my knowledge) who made his code freely available to the public.

 

There is no reason why the RAA couldn't put out a tender for the job, make a selection and provide this service to everyone via their website. I believe this would be easily achieved as it has already been developed by an number of sources (and currently freely available).

 

How about it RAA? Ian Baker, aren't you close to the RAA thinktank?

 

 

[JayKay]

The bulk of my flying is 2-3 day cross-country trips with different groups of pilots. In my experience, during the trips, most pilots will use their notepads or internet enabled mobile phones (eg. iPhones) to check non aviation specific weather sites (eg. eldersweather, etc).

 

When I ask them why they don't check ARFORs, METARs or TAFs they say it takes too long to decode and they aren't quite sure about the accuracy of their decoding.

 

We are living in the 21st century in the midst of a technology revolution. People want quick and easy access to information. Many weather sites provide that service leaving the good old coded ARFORs, METARs and TAFs behind in their wake.

 

We've got to stop kidding ourselves. If we are serious about safety then we need to provide a service which delivers relevant, useful, quick and easy to use information for ALL pilots, not just the elite few who are fluent in a coded language which has long ago lost it's justification to exist (why did they make us study Latin at school?).

 

 

[JayKay]

Cficare, I thought you might be, but now that I've managed to draw you out, I know it, you're a Closet Coder Sadly I can't compete

 

 

[Vev]

Continuing to maintain a process for no better reason than because “it has always been done that way” or "they wont let us" is a nonsense to me when it come to safety improvements…. I think the current aviation weather forecasting services will make a wonderful wall decoration for The Flat Earth Society club rooms.

 

Lets move on and use some common sense.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[turboplanner]

Cficare, I thought you might be, but now that I've managed to draw you out, I know it, you're a Closet Coder Sadly I can't compete

He is Tasmanian JayKay

 

 

[flying dog]

But the thing is:

 

The weather is what it is. It is "translated" into the ICAO forecast.

 

Instead of translating that into English, what would be better is stepping back one level at the originating site and make it English from there.

 

It isn't that the equipment generates that exact text. It is read in to a computer/program/what ever and the ICAO code generated.

 

Having said that, with the same input an English "translation" could also be written and made from there.

 

 

[bushpilot]

The bulk of my flying is 2-3 day cross-country trips with different groups of pilots. In my experience, during the trips, most pilots will use their notepads or internet enabled mobile phones (eg. iPhones) to check non aviation specific weather sites (eg. eldersweather, etc).When I ask them why they don't check ARFORs, METARs or TAFs they say it takes too long to decode and they aren't quite sure about the accuracy of their decoding.

 

We are living in the 21st century in the midst of a technology revolution. People want quick and easy access to information. Many weather sites provide that service leaving the good old coded ARFORs, METARs and TAFs behind in their wake.

 

We've got to stop kidding ourselves. If we are serious about safety then we need to provide a service which delivers relevant, useful, quick and easy to use information for ALL pilots, not just the elite few who are fluent in a coded language which has long ago lost it's justification to exist (why did they make us study Latin at school?).

Well said, and I agree 100%. However, as of now, we are required to learn the 'latin' approach to dealing with the Air Services / BoM aviation outputs. Perhaps we should mount a campaign with them to go the Avmet route...

 

 

[ianboag]

But the thing is:The weather is what it is. It is "translated" into the ICAO forecast.

Instead of translating that into English, what would be better is stepping back one level at the originating site and make it English from there.

 

It isn't that the equipment generates that exact text. It is read in to a computer/program/what ever and the ICAO code generated.

Not so. I went to Metservice in Wellington (they have tacked my PLM on the end of their standard page) and talked to some of the forecasters.

 

They write this stuff down cold. There is no initial English->jibberish conversion. I would guess that BOM are the same. Clever folk!

 

IB

 

 

[flying dog]

Ianboag,

 

It isn't I want to be arguementative.

 

The text doesn't just "magically comeout of no-where" in that format.

 

The input/s are parsed and the met lingo is created from that.

 

All that is needed is to insert a Plane English (sic) representation/"translation" of that data.

 

 

[turboplanner]

You're right FD, the problem is with the exclusive brethren of BOM;they are the ones who need to come into the 21st Century

 

 

[bushpilot]

V'good, but not perfect... Here the word 'as' is intepreted as 'altostratus', when it should be just 'as':

 

Overview:

 

 

Area QNH 11 pm to 2 am area 21: 1026

 

OVERVIEW: ISOLATED SHOWERS W OF YBTH/YAS/YCOM. SHOWERS FALLING AS SNOW ABOVE 3500FT IN FAR SW. BROKEN LOW CLOUD RANGES/W SLOPES DEVELOPING W OF YORG/KIAN AFTER 11Z. ISOLATED FOG/MIST DEVELOPING AFTER 12Z, CHIEFLY RANGES/W SLOPES. MODERATE TURBULENCE ABOVE 13000FT.

 

 

Isolated showers W of Bathurst / YAS/ Cooma. Showers falling altostratus snow above 3500 ft in far SW. Broken low cloud ranges/ W slopes developing W of Orange / Kiandra after 9 pm. Isolated fog/ mist developing after 10 pm, chiefly ranges/ W slopes. Moderate turbulence above 13000 ft.

 

 

[Vev]

In support of a plain language weather report, I wrote to both Ian Baker and Rod Birrel. Rod responded and has agreed to table my request with the RAA Board and follow the matter through and feedback.

 

Hopefully the RAA may see an option to approach CASA and reduce the complexity for weekend pilots and improve safety as well as get in line with other parts of the world.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

 

[boleropilot]

hey Tracktop, just noticed your choice of flying machine

 

i wrote a short article on how a Drifter driver tried to cope with flying a TIF in a trike recently

 

should be in the September issue of Pacific Flyer - might be good for a giggle m8

 

cheers

 

boleropilot

 

 

[bushpilot]

In support of a plain language weather report, I wrote to both Ian Baker and Rod Birrel. Rod responded and has agreed to table my request with the RAA Board and follow the matter through and feedback.Hopefully the RAA may see an option to approach CASA and reduce the complexity for weekend pilots and improve safety as well as get in line with other parts of the world.

 

Regards

 

Jack

Hey Jack - Any update on this??

 

Thanks

 

Chris

 

 

[ianboag]

Someone could even throw a small no of $$$ at me to tidy up the last bits and pieces :-)

 

 

[Vev]

Hi Chris,

 

I exchanged a few notes with David Birrel who said he would raise the issue with the RAA board ... so far no feed back at this stage but I will follow my end and check progress and let everyone know.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[bushpilot]

Hi Chris,I exchanged a few notes with David Birrel who said he would raise the issue with the RAA board ... so far no feed back at this stage but I will follow my end and check progress and let everyone know.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

Thanks Jack!

 

 

[Vev]

I spoke with Rod Birrell (Victorian RAA Board Member) today and I asked where things are in terms of the introduction of a Plain Language Weather Reports for recreational pilots.

 

 

Rod said, he is very enthusiastic to make this happen and will champion the issue on behalf of the RAA membership.

 

He said he intended to table the motion earlier but the RAA elections had been a personal distraction which slowed things up. Never the less, he said, he will be tabling this at the next board meeting in a couple of weeks.

 

 

Rod seems to think there is a reasonable opportunity to develop an interim solution around the legislation to move this along with some pace, although it will still take time relative to many things involving bureaucracy.

 

 

He said, this work sits mainly in the domain of the RAA Operation Managers but he is very supportive and prepared become directly involved in this project to help drive the change.

 

 

If any of you out there feel supportive of moving to a Plain Language Weather Report it wouldn’t hurt to inform your state board member to help motivate this along… just drop them a short email.

 

 

Rod said that he will get back in touch with me as soon as he has introduced this at the next Board meeting and let us know the next steps.

 

 

In my view, if this change can make flying safer through reduced complexity and clearer information we have had a win.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[Admin]

Vev, it was discussed at a board meeting last year, which Birrell was at, so he should have told you what was discussed and why it couldn't be done rather then lead you up the garden path. However, a link to Ian's site was placed on the RAAus site for those that want to use it without it being anything "official" but unless the information comes in plain English from the Met and CASA etc allow it then it can't be done without risk of consequences if anything went wrong. This I explained to you at work the other day.

 

Last year I looked into it and spoke to Mick Poole about it as he also tried to get the Met to do it but hit a brick wall

 

I spoke to Ian about putting it on this site also last year but there were 3 issues, 1 being that I would be opening up myself to being sued if anyone used it and got into a spot of bother causing injury or damage from some mistake that was made (remember Met could change their data at any time and programming can always contain a bug), 2 being that Ian wanted to charge for it or have advertising on it (not insurmountable) and 3, there is also one available from a guy at Tooradin or Tyabb (Mick Poole advised me on that one).

 

You never know though, things can always change or with government entities...stay the same

 

 

[Vev]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for this ... Rod did make mention of the discussion last year and was aware of the road blocks.

 

However, after talking with him today he seems to think there is an alternative or a new approach to get this over the line.

 

It may be best you have a chat with him directly and talk though his thinking and test it with you own understanding and help him shape it for the RAA Board meeting?

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[ianboag]

If it's any help - you might like to look at how the NZ CAA and Metservice handled it on this side of the ditch. It took rather more than a submission from RAANZ to make it go. The Aviation Industry Association eventually took it up with the CAA Director. Metservice were EXTREMELY resistant to the idea - an estimated development cost of $200k being quoted at one stage. CAA blew all kinds of unhelpful smoke at it.

 

Perhaps CASA and BOM would be much more reasonable.

 

If you go to metservice.metra.co.nz and use my login/password <S899> and <8/08/05> you get the NZ equivalent of the BOM site. If you pick a forecast area, you will get (among other things) a button for "plain language". If you click it, you get a disclaimer about a page long that says the sky is falling down and Metservice has nothing to do with whatever the shonky thing is you are about to connect to. Then you get a translation (run with the same engine as pemet.co.nz uses)

 

And of course it's not hard to find individuals in CAA who think my PLM (plain language met) site is great and they use it personally.

 

Here are some of the reasons CASA/BOM might never produce PLM for you.

 

- PLM is not ICAO certified (there is no ICAO spec for PLM so it can't be done).

 

- Real pilots are all fluent in gibberish.

 

- It would cost too much and there is no budget for it.

 

Cheers IB

 

 

[turboplanner]

And so the deaths go on with the onset of bad weather every year.

 

"Real Pilots are all fluent in gibberish" I'd disagree with you on this Ian, I know real pilots who are disgusted with the blatant disregard for an obvious safety issue - it's REGULAR pilots who are fluent in the codes - the ones who fly once a week or more. We're in the Recreational Category.

 

 

[ianboag]

I know REGULAR pilots who struggle with TAFMET gobbledygook .... and go to the regular weather site or Sky TV (our Foxtel) because they understand it.

 

Incidentally if it's going out to tender, make sure I get a set of dox.

 

The CAA's weather guru conceded that pemet.co.nz was "one of the better PLM sites he has seen". I asked him to point me at some of the better ones so I could see what to learn from - and pemet became "the best he has seen". Notwithstanding my urges to stay modest, I haven't seen a better PLM site yet. I accept that there are a few more things I should do to pemet.com.au but there's a "round tuit" problem. I also do things I get paid for - we have to eat - I have to keep my Jab in the sky etc etc :-)

 

What's the story about the other PLM from Tooradin or Tyabb ... ?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Good to see you guys have round tuit problems also.

 

I haven't heard about PLM at Tooradin, and haven't seen anything of any consequence going on around the sites, but there's always someone playing with an excel sheet, (most fall by the wayside quickly)

 

 

[ianboag]

A few posts ago Ian said ...

 

there is also one available from a guy at Tooradin or Tyabb (Mick Poole advised me on that one).

I believe that Champagne Flight planner contains PLM code too. The problem with doing it at the PC end is if BOM makes a format change in the data. They are unlikely to change the content (so any changes will still be human-readable) but a format change might kill it for a decode program.

 

If one does it on the web this is not an issue because the provider only has to adjust the code in one place once. Not to forget the other benefits about how you can get off any old PC or Net-enabled mobile phone .....

 

IB