bushpilot Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 How do you deal with the sceptics - especially those close to you? With many years of involvement in aviation - gliders, GA, hang-gliders, trikes - I have often been confronted by family, friends and colleagues with lots of less than positive views and opinions on the value of flying. You can tell that they are often thinking something like... "Why leave the perfectly good terra-firma in something that will at some stage come back down a lot harder than the way it lifted off...?" And especially when we get news of another aviation accident - that seems to rate far higher in the newsworthy priority stakes than yet another fatal car accident. I find myself cringing as the news emerges, thinking first - "Poor buggers", then - "I need to know what caused it, for the learning", and finally - "I hope it's not in the same category as what I'm currently flying..", as that will always generate the question "Is that the same as what you fly?" - in something approaching an accusatory, or even an 'I told you so' tone. (Not from my wife - at least she understands..). I'm sure this is something that most of us have to deal with - so, again, how do you deal with the people around you when the news turns bad? Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Chris I thought I had been putting up with that for years with regard to racing and riding motorcycles on the road (death-wish, temporary Aussie & similar dopey expressions). But that was chickenfeed compared with matters aviation. My gliding is not so bad as my friends just think you go up for 30 minutes and come down. Most have no idea that you can bugger off cross-country for most of the day, so why tell 'em. But it is driving me berserk when long term mates come around and look at my J230 building .... and they all come up with the same idiotic questions and witticisms. So I have just adopted the 2-stage "blue healer" approach. I either ignore them like some middle aged blue heelers do ...... or I bite them just-in-case or after they ask their stupid questions, like an old cranky bluey does. Works great, because they stop coming around .... and I can then talk with like minded people on this forum who "understand". Sick-'em Rusty. Does that help? Regards Geoff/Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Very clever, Captain, - thanks for the thought! I think I can put that into practice with some assistance from my real 'blue-heeler'; a red cattle dog in fact - and boy can he get nasty! Next time the aviation oriented quizzical looks or sniggering starts (I find it a bit hard to hide my strip and windsock...) I'll invite my visitor to go pat the nice doggy..... Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Chris, I always find that it helps to remember that there are two sorts of people in this world: Those that Fly (TTF) and Those that Don't (TTD). TTF understand that TTD don't understand, that their brains are not quite large enough to cope with the complex issues associated with flying. It is then hardly surprising that they make inane comments; that they can't understand the simple principles of flight; that they think for some reason that it's safer on the ground than it is in the air; and finally they think that we are more likely to die flying than they are likely to die of salmonella from those dim sum that they insist on eating - wrong. Now as TTD have smaller mental capacity than TTF it makes no sense to attempt to reason with them; it makes no sense to try to explain. The only sensible response is a quiet superior smile and cutting off all future contact with them. They are bad for your mental health so have nothing to do with them, nothing. That is unless they are blonde and cute (is there an e on blond(e)?)...no I'm not going to sink to blond jokes....no I'm not at all...I promise:star: All this is entirely PC you understand...borne out of a deep concern for the things that are missing in the lives of TTD...nevertheless you must have nothing to do with them....nothing... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 This reminds me of a joke I heard: How can you tell a Pilot at a large party.... Don't worry....he'll come and tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOSGcentral Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I personally do not have any difficulty in this area but generally you handle it at two levels - public and private. When I was operating the flying school I would often go to the local hotel for a couple of beers to rehydrate after flying. It is a small country town and everybody knows everybody else and what they do - something that can be obvious if you are still in winter flying gear, are bloody freezing after a few hours in an open cockpit and want to stand in front of the fire to get things working again. The regulars know that I fly, the publican even put a large photo of a Thruster on the bar wall, but I simply do not talk about it - I've had it all day and I do not need more when I am relaxing. Very early I established a scenario and understanding that it was just a job like any other, nothing mysterious about it and the guy sitting next to me who operated a large piece of complicated plant was probably more skilled than I - and certainly earned more money! The locals understand and respect that so they treat me on my merits as a person - not what I do for a crust or interest. So I have never had any problems at that level and I am generally left alone unless someone has a serious question they need an answer to - like can you bring some fresh prawns back from the coast for me? At a personal/social level it can be more 'difficult' and is best tackled head on eg - Look, you do what you like and I will not question you and I will do what I like so get off my case! That normally stops things in their tracks! The worst thing you can do is bite back! That just gets the confrontation going and adds fuel to the fire. But most people who have difficulties actually bring it on themselves because they insist on letting everyone know that they FLY - Wow! Low whistles of admiration and the rest of the crap! So you get a normal human reaction and it has nothing to do with aviation, or flying 'ultralight death traps' but has a great deal to do with social levelling (you are going to come down a peg or two sonny) and Aussies are very skilled at doing that sort of thing! I have been fortunate in working with the most skilled. experienced and qualified instructors in recreational aviation - many of them were/are close personal friends. They all have a common denominator - they are content and at peace with what they do and have no need to talk about it other than when they are working - so they do not! Personally I find flying a very personal affair and keep it that way! I share what skills and knowledge that I have via instructing and running my Thruster support group etc but I have no interest in 'converting' the local populace. If people really want to fly they will find a way and that is how it should be - because if they do not 'really' want to fly then they are not going to make good pilots! So I have little difficulty - you cannot be knocked off a pedstal if you choose not to stand on one - can you? Aye Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi Tony - Some really useful views here - Thanks. I hadn't thought of the 'bring it on themselves' issue, but u r right - a number of aviators that complain about negative attention actually actively seek attention... So laying low is a good suggestion. Pushing notions down people's throats will often illicit a negative reaction; so, as you say, let them come to you if they want to know more about flying... Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I personaly think, especially early on in the piece, that we are so excited about our achievements that we want to tell the world about it. I mean remember how you felt when you first went solo - you are so excited about achieving this great milestone that you just want to talk about it to anyone who will listen and often the "non-interested" non- flying person will take that the wrong way hence the general opinion by non-flyers that pilots think they are just it. But having said that, being a pilot and every single time you do fly IS a great achievement and that is why we like to hear about these things here at the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 This was an interesting topic. Well done :) I have to agree with Ian though. Every flight is and achievement and every flight is wonderful (and sometimes 'scary'). But, you do learn things from the 'scary' flights!! It has often been brought up in conversations "What do you do for fun" "I fly" often you get the "What" then God forbid when the word 'ultralights' is brought up. We can thank the media for that one I deal with the skeptics in a number of ways. Here are some tips I give them * There are alot more fatalities on the road, whether it's in your car, walking across the street,catching a bus...you get the picture * I have been doing it safely for a number of years (since 1996) I'm sure alot of you alot more than that :) and I'm still here * It's my hobby, my passion and my love (apart from my family). What's your hobby? Stamp collecting? Boooooring. There are stacks of pointers and I can usually bring the skeptics down to our level real quick. Next, I will arrange for them to come out to the field on a weekend and have a 'look'. They need not come for a flight (though often they do) and even on take off "Wow, this is awesome. I see why you like it". Sadly, people picture ultralights as all rag and tube and 'lawnmower engines' (which are also alot of fun incidentally). So yeah, you get the picture. Nobody would ever stop me flying ultralights I have always said that. I have been asked before if I survived a crash would I fly again. I absolutely would and if my number one day is up, know that I died doing what I have loved all my life, flying.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 It is often said that there are a lot more fatalities on the road than flying, but there are a lot more hours spent on the roads. In the years I have been flying I have lost more friends to aircraft accidents than to road smashes. That is not going to stop me flying but I take all the precautions I can. It is sad to see friends go when you know they weren't cowboys. Ian Borg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelorus32 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I was a bit flippant in my first post...but I think that there are at least two separate issues at play here: First as Tony rightly says, it's a private matter. I don't go around telling people that I fly. Some of my friends know and some don't. They all found out in passing though. Second is the point of my previous post: The only person that matters is you! In saying that I am not suggesting that you act rashly, arrogantly or irresponsibly. In fact exactly the reverse. I am saying that this is your business, by all means take note of those you respect and those you love. But it is your life and you must make your own judgements. From that point of view the, often ill-informed, mutterings of all and sundry are not relevant. I choose to deal with it by trying not to have those conversations start or by neatly sidestepping them when they do. Life is too short for those conversations. Finally and most importantly: It is your life and the life of your passengers. The vast majority of accidents are pilot error. Rather than say that flying is dangerous I think it is better to say that safety requires a high level of personal performance. That performance comes from training, from skill development, from attitude...and a raft of other areas like health, fitness etc. Again I'm not trying to be arrogant about flying. Rather I'm saying that the consequences of events in aviation mean that the pilot has a higher performance demand on them than say somebody driving to the local shop. Sometimes I think that as pilots we forget that. Kind regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'm proud of the fact that at age 62 I learnt to fly and therefore I'm willing to 'discuss' my hobby with anyone. Who brings the subject up? Usually it's in conjuction with other subjects where I use it as a comparision. Of coarse, when there's been an accident, the safety issue comes to the fore and the 'misinformed' start shouting the odds. I particularly get mad with the media who still insist on referring to our planes as 'ultralights' for the sake of senstionalism. Education is my aim and should be for all pilots. As to those who believe that if God intended us to fly, he'd have given us wings, there are several answers. Don't knock it untill you've tried it, or God intended us to evolve and move on, not stay rooted and die out, or do you swim? we were not designed to enter the realm of water either, and so on. I'm happy to say that when asked if they'd like to try it, they usually say yes. What I don't tell them is how small a Jabiru is and when we've travelled 1 hour to the airfield, it's too late to back out. Cheers and safe flying, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Good trick eh Doug? I use it often too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.Drifter Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Depends who it is and what mood I am in, I use a couple of relpys "Everyone dies but not everyone lives'' or I was killed in a crash , but when I saw the light I didn't go and was back flying next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juliette Lima Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 A couple of super responses ..... think I'll borrow them !! Thanks S. Drifter JL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Longden Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I just tell folks that in 25 years of being a volunteer road accident rescue worker, I stopped counting fatal car incidents at 100. But Ive only ever attended one aircraft incident - and that was an excercise. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Bear Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 "Oh the one with the lawn mower engines" and laughs...I say: "naa, they're not that powerful!!" LOL Love it Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 A lot of the bad PR is our own fault. Just listen in to two pilots at a party. Do they tell long involved tales of how last Sunday they fired up the Rotax , had an enjoyable 30 mins scenic flight, stopped in where they knew they could get a coffee and then had a glorious sunset flight home again. No!!! All we tend to talk about is the "scary" stuff. Can we really blame our associates for thinking that it is all scary stuff?. Re introducing the reluctant passenger. I have several times invited a skeptic out to assist me in a routine service/ aircraft wash or whatever. After they have spent an hour or so actually touching the aircraft and discover that it is all a pretty basic machine with principles that seem at first sight easily related to motor cars etc, and that you are serious about the standard of maintainence service they are much more comfortable with the idea. Then when you say you are going to take it for a quick circuit those that have not already volunteered to be ballast will be easily be persuaded. Davidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Just button the lip G'day All, I have this problem in a couple of areas of my life. One is flying and the other is property investing. I use the same tactic in both; I shut up and say nothing unless I'm asked a question by a genuinely interested person. The most I say to derogatory comments is "You have your view and I have mine". I leave it at that. Chris, I notice your airstrip is Wyalkatchem; almost my home territory although I now live in Perth. I used to live in Koorda about 45 km North of Wylie. Sorry I got off topic Guys;) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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