Students buying aircraft.

[winsor68]

Does it happen? I have heard several times the advice not to buy until you are licensed. It seems that for a little investment you may actually save in the long run if you can build experience in your own aircraft toward the ultimate goal of being a more competent pilot?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If your goal is to simply learn how to fly and see where it takes you, using the school aircraft may be best.

 

But if you have a real plan for aircraft use after, you might as well buy it even before you start training; that will work out much cheaper.

 

 

[Spin]

I wouldn't advise it for the average student coming into flying cold, so to speak. It can take a while to clarify in your mind exactly what you want out of an aircraft. Otherwise aircraft tend to be chosen on the basis of "it looks cool / cute /tough" or "everyone else here flies one"

 

Obviously some people do know exactly what they want and it must be pretty special learning on your own - just not for everyone, or even most people I don't think.

 

 

[icebob]

Hi,

 

That is exactly what I did when I left the Fleet Air Arm, purchased a C150, 1976 model and did my training/re-training in that near the end of my re certification I found RAA, should have purchased a RAA registered aircraft and re-lernt to fly in that, would have been cheaper too.

 

Bob.

 

 

[country kid]

that is something i would love to do and as some one with a great interest and in 2012 starting an appretiship as an air craft mechanic i would love to have my own plane but the truth is their a "big" investment and one that many student pilots or eger student pilots simply cant afford. unless some one can give me the name of a plane (i dont like getting cold so one with a enclosed cockpit) under 20K?? cause i havent seen one yet? it definaetly would make lerning cheeper and you can always move up to better things when you have the experience?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Kick start your apprenticeship by building one from plans! Something like a Minicab using an AeroVee engine should stay well under 20K. They offer good performance too, so you may not want to upgrade for a long time...

 

There surely are some kits also that would stay under 20K. A Sonex or Rans kit can certainly be built under $30K.

 

 

[winsor68]

that is something i would love to do and as some one with a great interest and in 2012 starting an appretiship as an air craft mechanic i would love to have my own plane but the truth is their a "big" investment and one that many student pilots or eger student pilots simply cant afford. unless some one can give me the name of a plane (i dont like getting cold so one with a enclosed cockpit) under 20K?? cause i havent seen one yet? it definaetly would make lerning cheeper and you can always move up to better things when you have the experience?

There seem to be plenty of sub $20k RA-Aus aircraft out there... even with enclosed cockpits... this is what I am referring to... If you take your first 100 hours of experience building and do it in your own aircraft surely you would be at least even with a lot more convenience and maybe even save some money.

 

Thrusters, Drifters, Sapphires, Supapups, Himaxs...etc etc etc just take a look at the current Recreational flying classifieds and the Ra-Aus mag... I don't know how you would go with insurance but potentially with a Drifter or similar you could even lease it to your school for low inertia and Tail wheel endorsments?

 

 

[country kid]

i guess you could do it personaly i would be chasing a STOL air craft that i can chuck gear in and go "bush" with second hand or from a kit if it needs work the its called a lerning curve but i would say second hand would in many cacses be better than a new kit. :D but things like a sonex and personaly iv never herd of a minicab arent really suited for rought wheatbelt strips or unprepared bush tracks. and being a fair way from the closest bituman strip would make it hard. two seater would also be required so you could do lessons and endorsments in your own plane.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

but things like a sonex and personaly iv never herd of a minicab arent really suited for rought wheatbelt strips or unprepared bush tracks.

You should ask rxbrumby where he lands his tundra-tyre equiped Minicab! :D Any sturdy big-wheeled taildragger will make for a good bush plane, really.

That said: if you are building from plans, a Cub copy shouldn't be too hard either.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

The minicab in question. Has an 0-200 in it, so a bit more powerful than most.

 

Photo Search Results | Airliners.net

 

 

[country kid]

it is a nice aircraft :D is there a company that makes kits? because im limmited in the cutting gear area which makes making one just from planes hard?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Countrykid, You need a cheap Savannah or a 582 equipped Lightwing, there are a couple over there for sale. You do need to learn to fly either first however. The days of going bush and sorting it out yourself are long gone fortunatly.........................................Maj..

 

 

[country kid]

a cheapo savvana would be exactly what i would be chasing :D haha na the idea was to lern how to fly and then use my own aircraft for my PAX and cross country :D ha ha i will endevor to chase it up :D thanks millard

 

 

[bushpilot]

Cant beat owning your own to get really committed to completing the ticket to fly:

 

First, I bought a hang glider - then learnt to fly it

 

Then, I bought a Piper Colt (GA a/c) and got a PPL

 

Then, I bought an Airborne trike and got my RAAus 2-axis licence

 

Then, I bought my current Jab160 and got my RAAus 3-axis licence..

 

(My wife says: thank goodness jets are heaps expensive.. ;-)

 

As well as the motivation from ownership, you save a lot of $$s in having to only pay for an instructors time..

 

Cheers,

 

 

[country kid]

wow bush ha ha if you dont mind me asking how did you fund all of that?? i mean my family has a fair bit of money but i dont think even we could affor that? :thumb_up:

 

 

[sseeker]

A lot of students don't realise that owning a plane is expensive. It's not just a matter of buying one and keeping it in your backyard and having it cost nothing after that.

 

Hangarage

 

Maintenance (spare parts, 50hourlys, 100hourlys, overhauls etc...)

 

Fuel

 

Insurance

 

Registration

 

A load of responsibilities (for us young ones!)

 

I've spoken to some people at my aerodrome about it and they recommend purchasing a fully built aircraft at first and learning to maintain that and seeing if you can afford it. No point building an aircraft unless someone with experience can help you.

 

I've thought about buying a Thruster T85 (can pick a second hand one up for something like $7k?) but there's no way I'd be able to afford the ongoing costs on my own.

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

sseeker, have a look at the attached article at http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/general-discussion/84783-forming-joining-syndicate.html. ... You might find that shared ownership is the way to go .. . cuts your fixed costs and, with a syndicate of 4 or 5 you should find that you'll get all the flying you want

 

Regards

 

RD

 

 

[facthunter]

Owning your own.

 

The advantage is that you know what the aeroplane has been subject to.(when you are the SOLE owner). The circumstances beyond your control are instances of hangar rash when some careless sod bashes his plane against yours and doesn't tell you, so pick your syndicate persons well and also those who share the hangar with you, also nev

 

 

[Guest Sharp End]

Absolutely agree with the ingoing costs issues and the hangar rash problem. Fortunately we have now got reasonably low cost, excellent quality hangarage at YCAB with caring hangar-mates. If only the field wasn't so popular with furry grasshoppers and our feathered flying friends! :ah_oh:

 

Having said that, if I were starting out my time in aviation all over again, I would buy something inexpensive and RAAus and go from there. Sure the ongoing costs are an issue, but at least you have an asset and being your own, you'll get to know every square inch of her as well as her every vice!

 

 

[Vorticity]

What would be expensive about owning a T85 thruster? The initial outlay is low, the 503s run forever with minimal maint and at $7k do you really need insurance?

 

There are some tricks with maintaining them so you need an experienced friend to watch over you for a while. My first aircraft was an old 503 drifter. It took up lots of my time but little of my money as it was hangered on a farm. I learnt a heap about ownership, got some hours up and then broke even for the major costs when I sold it.

 

That said, I'd give it 1 year after having your nav endorsment. Have some mney saved up do that you can fly a lot. You may find that with weather, work and family you are flat out doing 35 hrs a year. As a student pilot I would have scoffed at this! If you fly less than 50hrs a year it is difficult for ownership to be cost effective. The next thing to do is honestly look at what you do. If your habit is to go for a 1hr mooch around low late of an afternoon than a rag and tube would be perfect, if you are hitting the navs than maybe not.

 

Be careful with some of the prices being thrown around for kits. A sonex airframe kit landed in oz will be $22-$30 depending on options and exchange rate. That is without an engine or avionics.

 

 

[Just H]

This is quite ironic, as I was having a discussion with one of my staff recently, who informed me he was learning to fly helicopters. Without being rude, I asked him how the hell he could afford to. He made a statement about how he is in a good position and owns his home, so was seriously looking at buying Robinson R22 (I think.... - Im not much into choppers), for similar reasons, except that he wants to fly his long after he has his license.

 

So in his case, it seems like it could be a logical and smart choice for him. However, in my case, after just about completing paying off a Mercedes car, I think Ive had enough of repayments. Curiosity still gets the better of me and I admit to having scaled the pages of the aviation classifieds - there were two aircraft under 40K that i liked, one being a fairly tidy Cessna 150, and there were two Piper Tripacers I liked, all at would appear to be a relatively lower end of the scale price. But for me, at such an infantile stage of learning, Id rather wait and work out what I *really* like.....the Tripacer appeals to me simply for its nostalgic looks, and other si have spoken to speak highly of the model - especially the taildragger type - even more so if you want to fly to small bush strips (which is where I would be wanting to go once I attained my PPL).

 

However, speaking broadly, repaying 40K to a bank, and then coughing up maybe 10K a year in running costs, maintenance and heaven knows what else, I think it safe to say Im better to support one of the two schools I have access to for now, and might be better off forming or joining a syndicate with some others, for a more modern aeroplane later.

 

Just my rambling, garbled thoughts.... :)

 

H.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If you want to own and can afford it, you don't have to justify. It's just nice. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy, just like your Merc. You don't need a big fat beamer, do you? If it came down to just price, most of us would drive something like a Hyunday Getz. The few times a year we need a larger car, you can pick one up at Budget or Avis, which is much cheaper than operating one the whole year.

 

Yet somehow with aircraft, most people feel they need to justify the purchase. Probably because people don't think anything about the family mortgaged to the hilt, two new cars on credit, two 50" TVs with Foxtel in the home and the kids in private school. That's just normal. But when the guy who drives a 10yo small car and watches analog on his 21" CRT drops into an airport in a rented 172, he's assumed to be the money squandering rich guy...

 

 

[country kid]

wow i thought this thread had gone dead Glad it hasent though because after many disscussions with my mate from bindoon abandoned he managed after a few rides to get me hooked on drifters they say you either love em or you dont the best thing is there probly one of the cheapest A/C to run which for a first plane fits the bill the only hurdle i cant get over is how do you cough up 10-25k straight esspcialy for the younger guys like my self it makes owning our own aircraft out of reach for a fair few years?

 

Cheers CK

 

 

[justinm001]

how much does it cost to get the 50hr/100hr checks done generaly ?

 

and on a $100k plane for e.g how much would insurance be ?

 

I like these sorts of threads/topics... gives me hope/motivation.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Maintenance really depends on if any problem is found. If the aircraft is not hired out, you could do it yourself. (25 and 50 hourly for sure, 100 is a bit more involved.) Otherwise, expect $500-1000, depending on the rates of the L2 doing the work!

 

Insurance is a big one. 3% of hull value for hull insurance, then GST, etc. RA-Aus gives you $1M 3rd party and $250K passenger cover. If you hire it out, you may want to spend another $700 to get $5M for both. So in all around $4500 for the first year. Expect 10% discount after that. The 3% value may be lower if it is only a select group of people flying it. But expect to pay the full lot if you have it online and anyone can hire it, do first solos, etc.