Rotax 582 Oil Injection.

[sandman]

After I finish flying the back carby starts leaking oil from the idle speed screw then lies around the top of the bowl it's not dripping but I guess its a film of oil maybe run to the bottom of the bowl but not bad, I seem to think maybe there is oil still flowing a little from the oil injection pump (maybe some left in the line still) back towards the rear caby (lowest point) and gradually seeping through the thread on the idle speed screw. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

 

[Mc Guyver]

Hi Sandman,

 

Follow this link : www.microlighters.co.za • View topic - Oil Injection 582

 

This seems to be the same problem you are having.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

It's only got to fail once, and your looking at a siezed/ruined engine...take it off. Mixing oil with your fuel is satisfying, and you know all is going to be well...............I did it for over 15 years and never forgot once.............don't be lazy !......................................Maj..

 

 

[facthunter]

Oil Mix/Pump.

 

I am never entirely happy with just relying on the pump. When you mix the oil you have the certainty. The colour confirms that you have mixed it. The only real disadvantage is that mixed fuel goes "off" quicker than unmixed. Nev..

 

 

[ozzietriker]

Yes I agree - take the damn thing off, it's not worth the trouble or risk. There will be no warning when the system fails. It only takes a small amount to block one of those injectors.

 

I have been pre-mixing my fuel for 7 years and my 582 still runs like a swiss clock, it's one less thing that can go wrong champ

 

Dennis

 

 

[Keith Page]

After I finish flying the back carby starts leaking oil from the idle speed screw then lies around the top of the bowl it's not dripping but I guess its a film of oil maybe run to the bottom of the bowl but not bad, I seem to think maybe there is oil still flowing a little from the oil injection pump (maybe some left in the line still) back towards the rear caby (lowest point) and gradually seeping through the thread on the idle speed screw. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Chris get some elbow greese (will not wear you out) and mix the oil and petrol like me, gives one time to think about things. Not rattling dozers.

Regards,

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[sandman]

Hey Keith, good to see you here ol mate how's things.

 

 

[Keith Page]

this morning

 

Good morning heading up to the Lightwing this morning (28/05/10).

 

Drop in if you are hovering about. Has to have a few little things done to it.

 

see ya.

 

 

[Keith Page]

exhaust

 

Oi Chris old friend.

 

What an amazing thing - tweeked the plugs to the propper setting not the setting from the box.

 

EGT dropped.

 

Tweeked and sealed the exhaust.

 

EGT dropped and power increased.

 

Catch me one day will tell you all about it,

 

 

[sandman]

Gidday Keith, gunna have to catch up again shortly, gee its been awhile. Like to know your settings on those plugs, glad its all good ol mate See ya Keith. Oh how's ol Benny goin.

 

 

[farri]

It's only got to fail once, and your looking at a siezed/ruined engine...take it off. Mixing oil with your fuel is satisfying, and you know all is going to be well...............I did it for over 15 years and never forgot once.............don't be lazy !......................................Maj..

G`Day Ross,agree with you,mate,but out of 4 582 that I`ve had,the first one was oil injected and it outlasted the other 3...........wish I knew why......they were all used for training, all got much the same treatment.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

David,I`m not sure what you mean by," Changed Fuel Density ", but Rotax 2 stroke engines should be using 50:1 fuel and oil mix.

 

Wheather the oil is injected by pump or premixed with the petrol,it should be a mixture of 50:1,therefore,the engine should be receiving the same lubrication,regardless,the advantage of premix is simply to be certain that the engine will get it`s oil,because the pump could fail.

 

Regardless of the rate of descent,I try to ensure that the engine is not being turned by the proprller,this means keeping the RPM of the engine,relative to the rate of descent,this ensures that the engine is getting the rate of lubrication,required.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

David I believe the oil injection kit on a 582 actually mixs oil at 2 different ratios depending on the called for RPMs. Low revs I believe is mixed at 100:1 and high revs at 50:1.

 

Andy

 

 

[farri]

Hi Frank, An engine designed to run on raw fuel will likely have a smaller jet size than an engine designed to run on a fuel oil mixture, although I will admit the difference in size may be only very very small.David

Thanks David,

 

I wasn`t aware that there was any difference in,standard, jet size in the 582 and if,as Andy has said,the pump delivers 100:1 at low revs,then there would be even less oil,at these revs than premixed,regardless of jet size.

 

Frank.

 

( If It Ain`t Broke,Don`t Fix It.)

 

 

[Vev]

Hi David,

 

 

May be I can answer some (not all) of your very good questions re premix and the impact on fuel burn.

 

Firstly the calorific value of fuel is actually increased owing to the higher density of the two stroke lubricant (approx - fuel 0.7 – 2 S oil 0.88) when blended… additionally there is very small increase in viscosity, which does have an effect on the flow characteristics of the fuel through the jets. The energy value will remain somewhat the same either premix or injected and at a ratio of 50:1 the viscosity change is really very very small … the viscosity is more affected by heat variations.

 

 

Just as a matter of interest … generally speaking, as the ratio of 2S oil increases you see a corresponding increase in fuel energy values and usually peaks at around 16:1, which is very rich .. however there are some poor side effects, these being a drop in Octane performance, plug fouling and coaking etc.

 

 

Pre-mix has been around long before oil injection and is a reliable method for lubricating a 2 stroke engine … there has been a few exceptions, but mostly premix is considered a very safe method of lubrication.

 

 

The main thing to be concerned about premix is its use by date … the shelf life is very short and you will see an accelerated drop in lubrication quality and octane when stored. It’s always best to use fresh.

 

 

Btw … Cetane number or index is a diesel fuel measurement which refers to combustion ignition delay and nothing to do with petrol fuels energy.

 

 

Hope this helps?

 

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[Mc Guyver]

Thanks David,I wasn`t aware that there was any difference in,standard, jet size in the 582 and if,as Andy has said,the pump delivers 100:1 at low revs,then there would be even less oil,at these revs than premixed,regardless of jet size.

Frank.

 

( If It Ain`t Broke,Don`t Fix It.)

When using 582 auto lube engines, found the oil used averaged 70:1

 

In 4 trikes never had an engine failure and I certainly would only use and recomend auto lube

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

The reason for the pump is that the cam regulates the appropriate mix for the revs. With premix you get 40:1 the whole time. So the very problem you're trying to avoid (engine failure) may occur at the worst possible time( take -off) with a over oil seized plug.

 

Yep I know about the guarantees with pre- mix, but surely getting to know your trike,checking the flows and fill requirements and checking/ changing the oil pump screens regularly, and the cam alignment markers equals vigilent mantenance.

 

The only failures I've had in 20 yrs were due to plugs! gap em, change em and check them regularly, and the carb seal, boots and choke plunger seals. these are generally the culprits with the beleguered two stroke.:)

 

 

[farri]

The only failures I've had in 20 yrs were due to plugs! gap em, change em and check them regularly, and the carb seal, boots and choke plunger seals. these are generally the culprits with the beleguered two stroke.:)

Had a couple of engine failures in the early days, due to plug fouling,with single ignition,using NGK B8ES spark plugs.

 

Dual ignition became much safer,however,I chose to improve safety a bit more by using NGK B8EV plugs,because of the very thin electrode,they are less likely to foul,more expensive but many more hrs use also.

 

With the 582,Had cracking in the boots holding the carbies to the motor,generaly occured around 250 hrs,picked up in preflight inspection,no engine failures.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[bones]

However, no one has really answered my question about effective lube on a two stroke on closed throttle high RPM descent?

Which is better, pre-mix or auto lube, does the auto lube still lube an engine with high RPM and closed throttle, given the oil pump is driven off the cam, but the throttle is at idle setting????

 

David

i Dont get this question, how can you have high RPM with the throttle closed, sure if your full niose, then fully close the throttle, the motor will take a fewe secs to slow down, but the motor will be full of fuel anyways so no probs there.

 

Or am i missing something?

 

 

[pudestcon]

i Dont get this question, how can you have high RPM with the throttle closed, sure if your full niose, then fully close the throttle, the motor will take a fewe secs to slow down, but the motor will be full of fuel anyways so no probs there.Or am i missing something?

I think David is talking about the engine RPMs being maintained (or at least still at a high rate) by the 'windmilling' effect of the air velocity past the propeller - in effect, the air is turning the propeller not internal combustion. So the concern is that at high RPMs (induced by wind speed) and idol throttle setting there is not enough lubricating oil.

 

That's the way I read it anyway bones.

 

Pud

 

 

[bones]

David and Pud, that was sort of my thinking also, its been a long time since i flew a 2 stroke, but what type of revs would we be talking here??

 

If the motor is acually being helped turn over by the wind there is no real pressure on the internals(i wouldnt think) so the idle mixture should be fine, unless your diving/ decending for 30 mins( if this is the case you got other probs)

 

 

[sandman]

This is an old thread but would Teflon tape around the idle speed screw seal the weep.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Teflon tape is applied, to lubricate the thread so it can be tightened enough to seal, so , it shouldn't work on an idle screw.

 

 

[spacesailor]

One more,

 

If you use premix, does the auto-lube-pump need any lubrication?, or can it be run dry, would hate to hear bad noises after a few minute running without oil in the reservoir.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[robinsm]

It's only got to fail once, and your looking at a siezed/ruined engine...take it off. Mixing oil with your fuel is satisfying, and you know all is going to be well...............I did it for over 15 years and never forgot once.............don't be lazy !......................................Maj..

Bought a new engine 10 years ago, oil injected, no problems and went great. Good value when travelling cross country and having to run avgas in the 582. Saves getting a gut full of oil when not mixed properly.