Does anyone fly light aircraft type ultralights any more?

[Guest Escadrille]

It intrigues me, are we losing our direction or are we just progressing into a more mature or accomplished or affluent (affluenza? ) group of Pilots?

 

The type of aircraft I am thinking of are the single seat Thruster, SS Drifter, the lovely Javelin, the Boorabeee, Ozzies beloved Lazair even historical ULs like the Luton Minor?

 

We do not seem to see these aircraft around SE Qld much any more..

 

Are we pricing the young out of our sport?i_dunno

 

On the way to work this morning at 6:30 am I saw two guys in powered parachutes having a ball in the cool, slightl misty clean air over a local turf farm.. it took me back.

 

Are we ignoring the RAAUs mission ? Your thoughts?

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

We will always need entry level UL type aircraft. Unfortunatly many I believe are now being trained in the snazzy machines and when licensed don't wish to go back to hangin' out in the breeze. It's a shame as there is so much to learn from them as far as basic flying goes. Really what is being turned out now is a new GA-style pilot. Except for the likes' of Tomo..he's got Drifter time !!...............................................................Maj..

 

 

[Guest drizzt1978]

Technology and progress. You cant stop either...That is why the USA has LSA. I told people years ago, well ok 18 months ago, that the plastic fantastics (composites) (which i love) will force RA_AUS to merge with CASA or something will hapen to allow a different pilot type... somewhere in between a thruster, and a PPL, it that makes sense. We can fly VFR like GA boys, sometimes faster, and in more expensive machines. There will become a division, High performance, and low performance. Something will happen in time, im sure of it. As long as they let me up i dont mind what happens....

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

We will always need entry level UL type aircraft. Unfortunatly many I believe are now being trained in the snazzy machines and when licensed don't wish to go back to hangin' out in the breeze. It's a shame as there is so much to learn from them as far as basic flying goes. Really what is being turned out now is a new GA-style pilot.

Unfortunately its not easy finding a school that offers training on traditional types. Litigation culture and the impossibility of insurance certainly isn't helping

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[pudestcon]

In my view it's all about supply and demand. If the demand was there then someone would supply. If there was a big demand for a rag and tube (Thruster?) type aircraft then we would have a manufacturing plant turning them out like there was no tomorrow. Instead we have the fantastic plastic (Jabiru?) being manufactured in great numbers because there is the demand. People today want faster, sleeker and sexier looking although the sexier bit is debatable. It's just a sign of the times. I like rag and tube but sourcing components is becoming tougher, especially for the Thruster types. TOSG seems to have fallen in a hole since Tony's passing. To me it just illustrates what I said above - no demand so no supply. Simplistic view maybe but thems my thoughts.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest sirius]

If you loose touch with your grass roots, you change the direction of the concept.

 

By embracing your grass roots, you enhance the concept, the growth, and technological advances.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

If you have a good look at the FAR 103 types in the USA you will find that many are still available. One in paticular the Flightstar is undergoing a revamp and has just been re released with electric power. have a search thru the yahoo groups.

 

weedhoppers, kasperwings, mitchell wings are all there. Due to the GFC, 103 types have started to come back again as people in the States don't have as much spare cash these days.

 

 

[JG3]

Five years ago, before I built the Savannah, and I was still flying my single seat Beaver U/L, I couldn't count the number of 'old hands', by then flying Lightwings or Jabs or similar, who stated that they had more fun when they were flying Drifters or whatever.... They don't seem to have done anything about it, but I know I'll be flying a Drifter or similar again soon!

 

JG

 

 

[Guest Baphomet]

Savannah? luxury, sheer luxury. I remember, years ago when we used to live in a shoe box in main street, breakfast was 1/2 handfull of cold gravel........

 

Seriously, perhaps one way to stop the rot would be to make 'low performance' a stepping stone in the curriculum. That way at least some would come to appreciate just what they're missing.

 

Baph

 

 

[Skyhog]

TOSG seems to have fallen in a hole since Tony's passing.Pud

TOSG has a site booked at Natfly

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

If you loose touch with your grass roots, you change the direction of the concept. By embracing your grass roots, you enhance the concept, the growth, and technological advances.

Yes, we should all drive around in Model T Fords too. There will always be those who prefer the original ultralights for their affordability and 'feel', and those who embrace technological advances by demanding sophisticated composite A/C. Doesn't mean we should go backwards by flying only trikes (or whatever).

 

 

[Tomo]

I fly Drifters, etc...

 

I reckon all pilots need to understand light aircraft, or have just a few hrs in one sometime in their piloting history, it'll make you a better pilot by far - in my opinion.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Back when we used to fly out at St Mary's and places like Jaspers, we had a common warning 'never lend your lighty to a GA pilot' they would boof it in nearly every time. When they did get into one we'd all line up for the entertainment value.

 

i can't remember what a single place thruster weighs or javlin weighs empty. anyone have a figure for them. they'd be a bit heavier than the 73kg empty of my lazair.

 

Ozzie

 

looking forward to lazy autumn thermals

 

 

[motzartmerv]

We have a Bantam.. Should be back online very soon. Alot of our members were atracted to it, affordablity, gentle flying charactaristic, slow speed but good climb performance, exellent visability.But the real thrill is its short field ability. With 7 kts of wind one up, could easily get off within its own length. Top little plane me reckons.:thumb_up:

 

I was useing it to fly to camden for work after the RTA took my licence off me (too many speeding fines). But 5000 ft, at 7 in the morning during winter was a little bit too adventerous for me.. Makes me cold just thinking bout it.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I took time out yesterday and re-visited an earlier design of mine, a slow flyer with a difference. I had tried to update those early designs but not going too far as to loose the feel of 'Those magnificent men in their flying machines'. Although I've never flown anything like a Drifter or Thruster, I would sure like to and think I would love that laid back, low and slow form of aviation.

 

 

 

[Thalass]

That's pretty cool. The prop drive system would be pretty complex, though. But nice.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I have only 1 hour in a drifter and 7500 hours in GA aircraft (about 40 different types). I can't say I learnt anymore in the drifter than I have in other types, but I still reckon it is the best hour I have ever flown! :thumb_up:

 

If I buy an aircraft, it will probably be a 'plastic fantastic', simply beacuse I intend to use it for long distances and you don't get anywhere fast in a drifter!;)

 

 

[JG3]

Yes, many are pricing themselves out of the market. Can't count the number of beginners just finishing training, and dreaming of a $xx,xxx sexy speed machine, and I've suggested they should first get a single seat U/L and fly that for a couple of years. In that time they'll really learn how to fly, rather than just 'drive' an aircraft around, and fly to local fly-ins and mix with other aircraft owners, and very probably change their view of what it is that they really want own. But no, they keep to their unaffordable dream, and finances don't get any better, and years later they're still dreaming.....

 

In the last RAAus magazine there's a single seat Beaver, 100 hrs since complete overhaul and new 447, for $6500 ono. They're well proven aircraft, very forgiving, handle very well, and really easy to land - just perfect for a beginner. This one is even enclosed, so comfortable in cold weather. Fly right now for the running cost of about 11 litres/hr of regular unleaded plus oil. Now that's real value for money!!!

 

My first aircraft was a brother to that one, and I flew it for 1000 hrs, and loved every minute of it. It's only retired now because the skins are perished after 18 years and all that use - it didn't just sit in a hangar. The attached map shows the trips that I made in it. Not everyone is interested in such long trips, but it does show the capability. It was just perfect for the early morning buzz around, and a bunch of touch-and-goes, and trips to surrounding airfields to join in the tire-kicking and aircraft gossip, at such an affordable cost.....

 

Yes, the Savannah is pure luxury, and that's the problem... I much prefer adventure to luxury any day. And I do mean adventure, not mis-adventure which is do to poor planning and lack of judgement. X-country in the Savannah is like touring in a LandCruiser, comfortable and easy, but not nearly as much fun and the tingle of excitement, and feeling of satisfaction on successful completion, as it was in the little Beaver, which was more like riding a small trail bike. As a matter of fact, I used to call it my 'High-Clearance Trail Bike'.

 

So, beginners please consider flying a rag-and-tube aircraft as your first move. and save up for your dream machine while flying every Sunday instead of sitting dreaming.... Pay a proper market value for it, and you'll get your money back later, unless you fall in love with it and decide to keep it because you've discovered that it's really what's the most fun for the buck!

 

Of course I'll keep the Savannah if I can afford to, for long easy trips, but my dream now is for a basic rag-and-tube that folds easily into a trailer that can be towed around behind a camper vehicle and fly the sights locally wherever when the weather is right. I reckon there sure is a market for such an aircraft.....

 

JG

 

 

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes John, I remember all the enjoyable reading from you about your travels in the 'High clearance trail bike'. My previous aircraft (for 11 years) was Drifter 452 not too far from the Beaver. I too have gone for a bit of 'comfort' these days in the form of my current Lightwing.

 

In the old days, yes the newly licensed still had a bit of cash left to get into something cheap and basic....and keep flying !!.

 

And your right, now it's like they've done their wad and dissappear into plastic fantastic dream land, never to be seen again. The instructors are doing ok of course.

 

The first solo 100 hrs used to be such a learning period too, now they just fly around looking for something black and about 5000 ft long, so they can land, and actually take off again.

 

Unfortunatly it also really shows when the engine goes silent........end of rant........Maj..

 

 

[nashy]

In about 12 months an old javelin will be back from the dead, I am rebuilding one that I found rotting away in a shed with about 2 inches of dust on it.

 

Nashy.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Good job Nashy...............................................................Maj..

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Good on ya Nashy. Please post some pictures for us!

 

 

[robinsm]

You want real ultralights, who checked out the Perceptor N3 Pup with the half vw engine at natfly. Talk about rag and tube, tyhat is what ultralight flying is all about...!!!

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

After just returning from Natfly for 3 days, something really struck me from looking around the massive crowds there. I reckon the average age at that airfield was 162! Is this a trend in RAA?

 

Ok...maybe I exaggerated the average age a little but it was very noticeable. I think its great that we will be able to enjoy flying well in to our later years and is this what is drawing these flashy, expensive "Ultralights" we are seeing now instead of the cheaper rag and tube styles?

 

I guess the kids have left the nest, the mortgage is paid off and you have a little more money to flash around. Im 38 and have just started to build a plane from plans. I have gone this way as I dont have $20 000 up front to buy a kit or $100 000 for a Jabiru.

 

Am I on to anything here or am I having a Daryl Kerrigan moment and just "Dreamin"?

 

Scotty

 

 

[pudestcon]

Pud, You can legally make your own replacement parts for a lot of the early rag and tube machines.David

Yes you are right David and that is what we are doing with a lot of components required. However it does require 're-inventing the wheel' so to speak on a lot of occasions. It is an enjoyable journey though and one I want to take to gain the knowledge I don't have.

 

It's all good though frustrating sometimes:Disappointed:

 

Pud