Does anyone fly light aircraft type ultralights any more?

[Guest ozzie]

G'day, one plan in relation to the basic ultralight glider (google this on videos to see the clips) is to use a couple of big electric outrunners mounted close in on the leading edges a la Lazair and to launch with a bungey! These motors swing 50cm props and give about 15kg thrust for around 12 mins each. Should cost about $1000 incl. speed controllers. Attention aeromodellers. Good thread! Don.

A couple of guys in England have a Lazair powered with two predators.they are impractical as they get very hot very quick.

 

 

[Methusala]

G'day Ozzie and thanx for the feedback. We don't want them to run for too long, just to get into a thermal. The idea of the bungey launch is to relieve the power pack of extreme effort in accelerating to take off speed. It may not be practical at the moment and in terms of energy density petrol is probably better. Something like a paraglider power pack mounted behind the pilot is also on the agenda. I flew a Pterodactyl for 8 yrs in the 80's but the engineering in the Goat is far better. Do you know the bloke with the 4 engined Lazair? Saw him fly at Narromine 4-5 years ago. Don

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Fernando is his name. he took that lazair back to Portugal with him. It was not legal in Australia.

 

Have a look at this site www.icaro2000.com very nice electric nano trike.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Thalass]

my Lazair is currently flying on 35lbs of thrust from each engine (100cc) gives me around 150ft minute. later models using 185cc rotaxes about 300ft minute for average pilot weights.. electric would be even more.

When I was in high school one of my aero teachers told me about a guy who replaced the petrol engine on his trike with four (or six?) model aircraft gas turbine engines. It sounded like a fighter jet, but trundled along like a trike haha.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

One thing that seems to be coming to light amongst the powered para gliders is that there seems to be growing interest amongst the female pilots for electric units.

 

They rather the plug and play simplicity offered by electric flight over mixing fuel, changing spark plugs and carbie tuning.

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Just check out these build your own robust ultralights by englishman Mike Whittaker. He has been designing and building these proven designs for some years now.

 

rhttp://www.mwclub.org/

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Does anyone remember the Mitchell Wing? Fabulous performers..

 

: : US Pacific - Home of the Mitchell Wing Ultralights : :

 

Or the Pterodactyl Pfledge series of canard ultralights great fun, good performance..

 

Pterodactyl Ascender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

and you can still get the Mitchell and the Pterodactyl!

 

The Pterodactyl Hangar - Pterodactyl History

 

 

:thumb_up:

 

 

[Spin]

One thing that seems to be coming to light amongst the powered para gliders is that there seems to be growing interest amongst the female pilots for electric units.They rather the plug and play simplicity offered by electric flight over mixing fuel, changing spark plugs and carbie tuning.

I reckon an electric powerpack makes a lot of sense for a paraglider, it isn't a cross country machine by any stretch of the imagination, so if you could get similar thrust for an hour or two, for equivalent weight on your back, why not. I could be tempted to venture back into that game - flew the solar powered variety for many pleasant hours over various sites overseas. Great sport, just very demanding on your time - fitted into my bachelor days rather better than my current incarnation as family man.

 

 

[Guest Old_Plane_Nut]

Flying Flea. Pteradactyl and Clancy Skybaby

 

Gidday Ozzie, did you used to be at Somersby? If so you are the guy I was talking to at Luskintyre when I had my Flea there. have 2 Flying fleas, 2 Clancy Skybabies ( first Australian design fully aerobatic homebuilt ) and a new Ascender in a crate(1982). Looking for electric power for it.

 

If you can fly from Somersby in a 9510 (800 ft altitude and 700 metre strip ) with rotor and sink, then you can fly from anywhere. I have a lend of my mates $100,000 all metal glass cockpit whenever I like but honestly cant be bothered unless I need to go somewhere in a hurry

 

Love flying my mates Petinpol Aircamper from Somersby. Little bit heavier, 2 seater open cockpit and fast enough to go somewhere. The best of both worlds.

 

catch you at the next Tiger day

 

James

 

 

[farri]

It intrigues me, are we losing our direction or are we just progressing into a more mature or accomplished or affluent (affluenza? ) group of Pilots?The type of aircraft I am thinking of are the single seat Thruster, SS Drifter, the lovely Javelin, the Boorabeee, Ozzies beloved Lazair even historical ULs like the Luton Minor?

 

We do not seem to see these aircraft around SE Qld much any more..

 

Are we pricing the young out of our sport?i_dunno

 

On the way to work this morning at 6:30 am I saw two guys in powered parachutes having a ball in the cool, slightl misty clean air over a local turf farm.. it took me back.

 

Are we ignoring the RAAUs mission ? Your thoughts?

 

Andy

"Accomplished,Affulent" ???????????,We certainly are getting older,er sorry,more "mature", however.

 

I havn`t seen any young blokes come into the sport since I stoped instructing with my Drifter,years ago,what`s the going rate these days?,about $145.00 per hr for instruction alone.

 

"Are we pricing the young out"?, No it`s already occured.

 

I`ve Flown many Ultralight/Recreational aircraft over the years,I`ve had my Austflight Aviation twin seat wire braced Drifter for 25 years now,fly it regularly and wouldn`t swap it for any other,makes flying fun and affordable.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[monty]

"Accomplished,Affulent" ???????????,We certainly are getting older,er sorry,more "mature", however. I havn`t seen any young blokes come into the sport since I stoped instructing with my Drifter,years ago,what`s the going rate these days?,about $145.00 per hr for instruction alone.

 

"Are we pricing the young out"?, No it`s already occured.

 

I`ve Flown many Ultralight/Recreational aircraft over the years,I`ve had my Austflight Aviation twin seat wire braced Drifter for 25 years now,fly it regularly and wouldn`t swap it for any other,makes flying fun and affordable.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

I'm with you frank,

It's all about money now. Not the FUN.

 

The bigger ultalights cost too much for the beginner and are not half the fun to fly.

 

Young people can't afford the expence to learn or run the later models.

 

I have a Austflight Drifter ,Rebuilt it 14 months ago and would not trade for a new anything.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Monty

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I'm with you frank,It's all about money now. Not the FUN.

The bigger ultalights cost too much for the beginner and are not half the fun to fly.

 

Young people can't afford the expence to learn or run the later models.

 

I have a Austflight Drifter ,Rebuilt it 14 months ago and would not trade for a new anything.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Monty

That's why I started my DeMansfield Bolt project. I was looking to design a very basic, easy to build, modern variant of the earlier types. Something an amateur could build in a reasonably short time. It didn't 'take off', if you'll excuse the pun, because I put the prop in an unusual position. Perhaps I should retry it with a tractor prop, but that would mean moving the pilot back for balance, which in turn would need changes to the wing mounts which would lead to ...................etc etc. But we do definitely need to see more Thruster, Drifter types back in schools.

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Guys, im going back to my roots, i havent flown a drifter since 1990 or their abouts,or any tail wheel a/c since then. I flew the savage cub for two hours on saturday, to get re-check out on tail wheel a/c. I loved it, thats all im going to fly for the next six months.IMO the cub is a beautiful aircraft, and more fun than the tecnams, being a old school rudder aircraft. Next the drifter NICE

 

 

[farri]

I'm with you frank,It's all about money now. Not the FUN.

The bigger ultalights cost too much for the beginner and are not half the fun to fly.

 

Young people can't afford the expence to learn or run the later models.

 

I have a Austflight Drifter ,Rebuilt it 14 months ago and would not trade for a new anything.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Monty

Hi Monty,

 

Maybe a bit off topic but In my opinion, the RAA has almost reinvented the wheel.

 

I don`t blame the RAA completely,I believe that CASA has always intended the AUF/RAA to go in the direction that it has, and, (Not If ),when RAA gets 760kg and all the privilages that will go with it,the wheel will be complete,however if that is what the members want ,so be it.

 

I hold a level 2, with no restrictions,to maintain my own AC and about the same time as you refurbished your Drifter,I did mine,brought it back to almost new condition.

 

I made all my own skins,(have done a couple of sets,over the years,fraction of the cost and just as good) made all new wires,complete paint job, engine, bolts,all electrical wiring and battery, legs and tyres,seat belts and seat covers, total cost,round figures, $13.000.00.:thumb_up:

 

Now that`s affordable flying,leaves a heck of a lot of money for fuel.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Gidday Ozzie, did you used to be at Somersby? If so you are the guy I was talking to at Luskintyre when I had my Flea there. have 2 Flying fleas, 2 Clancy Skybabies ( first Australian design fully aerobatic homebuilt ) and a new Ascender in a crate(1982). Looking for electric power for it.If you can fly from Somersby in a 9510 (800 ft altitude and 700 metre strip ) with rotor and sink, then you can fly from anywhere. I have a lend of my mates $100,000 all metal glass cockpit whenever I like but honestly cant be bothered unless I need to go somewhere in a hurry

 

Love flying my mates Petinpol Aircamper from Somersby. Little bit heavier, 2 seater open cockpit and fast enough to go somewhere. The best of both worlds.

 

catch you at the next Tiger day

 

James

Yes James that is me yes somersby is a bit hard to fly out of in a lightie like the lazair. makes you appreciate more open strips.

 

you may have to bring your own lunch for the tigers day flying dog mentioned that the chef is taking a break from BBQ duties. post a mention on the forum if you are going and i'll drop over. The petinpol looks like fun.

 

ozzie

 

 

[tiketyboo]

there is the old and there is the new and for me i love them both, having a jk 05 Pathmaker, we call it jurasic plastic but the walk around is a breeze compared to my 1946 taylorcraft, you can not really compare them except to say there are two different birds, two different characters, i love them both. it is like driving a 1957 chevie and a camaro. hopefully we will continue to have people around who appreciate both the ragtop and the plastic.

 

 

[dodo]

I noticed a couple of comments regretting why no one wants to learn on the older, slower style of aircraft ("heads turned by the plastic").

 

As some one learning to fly for my own pleasure, I wanted to learn on something economical and slow. I want to fly from paddocks, not Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne. I can buy a ticket if I wish to visit these.

 

But what do you know? You can't! Of the three places I can learn to fly within two hours drive, one has a taildragger (I think), and all the rest of the aircraft are Jab/Tecnam etc.

 

So to learn to fly a Thruster, I need to learn to fly a Jabiru or Tecnam, then go get a low speed endorsement, then get a tail wheel endorsement, then probably a low level - if I can find any instructors with an aircraft.

 

My view of RA-AUS is it is about pretend Cessnas. The membership is mostly ex-GA, who still want to fly GA without the medical (want heavier weights, want to fly into controlled airspace, next will be night VFR), or people who want to become GA, but RA lets them learn on the cheap. There is limited interest in anything else.

 

Certainly, RA-AUS does little to encourage anything else. Note the insurance problems, the requirements for training aircraft that come close to excluding most non-plastic or aluminium skinned aircraft. And check the RA magazine - it's all about GA type flying.

 

If anyone does know of any instructors with low-speed & tailwheel training in NSW, I would be very interested,

 

Jim

 

 

[tiketyboo]

gee, does not sound good down there in NSW, thank goodness i am in Canada and within 30 minutes of my house there are 3 small airports populated mostly with karatoos, taylorcraft, challengers, lazairs, bussards and other assorted rag taildraggers. we have one very close community and very helpfull if you run into a problem. there are at least 3 trainers that i know of in the area also and while we are paying $120 per hour training we really can not complain. There is a very active community involved in ultralights, under 1232 pounds and i see this is going to be a sustained interest.

 

on weekends we fly to visit one anothers clubs for breakfast or lunch and socialise and i would not trade it for flights to big cities for sure.

 

good luck in your search, or come visit me.

 

tony

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Then every thing is real 'Ticketyboo' in Canada then?

 

Sorry but my vision of Australia the 'lucky country' burst on my first visit to Airventure 08.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[dodo]

I thought I should clarify my previous post, as it reads as if I have a bad attitude about GA.

 

I don't - and I have recieved a lot of advice and assistance from GA pilots.

 

I just think RA-AUS shouldn't try to be GA,

 

jim

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

 

Some very interesting real ultralights in this. and very interesting comments seems the revolution is about to start.

 

 

[pudestcon]

 

I liked the undercarriage on that last aircraft:laugh:

 

Pud

 

 

[monty]

 

Thanks ozzie,

All I can say is awesome!!!

 

There is a lot of fun in that clip.

 

Monty

 

 

[Steve Donald]

95.10 the original DNA OF RAAUZ

 

Unfortunately its not easy finding a school that offers training on traditional types. Litigation culture and the impossibility of insurance certainly isn't helping Cheers

 

John

Hiya John, you are quite right we are going full circle as far as training in an appropriate type aircraft to trasition into a 95.10 type, the exact problem we had in the begining where you operate within a 25 to 30kt safe flight envelope high drag ect fortunately there are still some schools arround using Drifters and Bantams, Thrusters.

I also think where some refer to this class of Aircraft as an entry class to RAA flying are incorrect, pilots who fly this type do so because they enjoy them and as far as freedom and being in the air nothing matches the experience or view, those who fly 95.10 do so by choice i guess it comes down to personal needs and preference for me if i had a choice of aircraft to go for a cruise down the coast on a nice day i would prefer my old flightstar, one of my old flying mates fly's very high performance aircraft but still misses his old Drifter, he used to fly everywhere in it. These Aircraft are a class of their own and a choice for pilot's certainly not just entry level flying. well that's my view cheers Steve

 

 

[facthunter]

Basic Origins.

 

Great to see some of that stuff. Looked at a couple of other Vid's that were alongside. very interesting.

 

Are these things now threatened in USA.? ( forgive me if my ignorance is showing).

 

Britain would have to be the biggest "nanny state" in the whole "developed" world. Nothing goes there unless it is available to all the lower socio-economic groups free and has no sharp edges where you could cut your finger on, even if you jumped on it from a tall building.

 

The thing is that most (if not all) of the aircraft depicted are ONE person capacity. Once you start to carry a passenger all the costs and weights, go up. Prior to that you had to teach yourself to fly also. Your first flight was your first solo. Still you are hurting no-one but yourself, but that doesn't count anymore does it?