CTAF radio calls

[XP503]

Hello everyone,

 

Just wondering what radio calls you would make arriving and landing at a new airfield with a CTAF.

 

Of course it would vary depending on which leg you joined the circuit.

 

I ask because a friend and I flew to Gympie today and as he joined the circuit he made these calls,

 

-10 mile inbound

 

-Crosswind

 

-Downwind

 

-Base

 

-Final

 

after the base call a C210 that was inbound came over the radio blasting my friend's use of the radio saying that so many calls were unnecessary, the pilot was extremely rude and pretty much yelling through the radio, I have never seen such a lack of courtesy over the radio.

 

Just putting it out there as I am interested to hear your responses/experiences.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Unless you were taking very long on each of the calls themselves and it was very busy with people trying to get their calls in, you actually made 100% the right calls.

 

The C210 driver was being an ass, probably suffering from letters-over-numbers superiority dissorder.

 

 

[Matt]

CTAF procedures are detailed in AIP ENR - link: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/aip/enr/1_1_1-116.pdf

 

Section 21.1.13 specifically refers, the table titled "Summary of broadcasts - all aircraft at non-towered aerodromes"

 

 

By the book your mate did the right thing (assuming he gave a clear of the runway call). That said, in my humble opinion, common sense needs to be applied to not over-communicate and flood the airways - imagine what Temora would have been like on the weekend had everyone attempted to make all the calls by the book.

 

 

[Ultralights]

all calls there are correct, actually the less aircraft in the area means i make more calls, if your arriving at a CTAF and hear silence, then assume there is no aircraft, then how do you know 3 other pilots have done the same thing? it happens quite regularly, you hear silence on the radio, somone else starts and taxxies to the closest runway and starts rolling, he makes no calls as he hears none and assumes no one else is there, the aircraft inbound does the same, next thing you know your turning final only to have your windscreen filled with an aircraft departing from the opposite direction.

 

so make the calls...

 

 

[facthunter]

Radio Calls

 

Being RUDE over the R/T is inexcuseable, regardless of the offence. In this case there was no offence anyhow. The calls were the recommended ones.

 

I personally do not make them all every time, as I believe they are excessive and sometimes local practice seems to become the norm also, so I try to fit in with that.

 

If someone has a problem with a procedure in the air, settle it on the ground after landing. Getting stirred up airborne does not aid good outcomes and is unprofessional. Nev

 

 

[Spin]

Matt, I support your point about the need for common sense in communicating, however on the few occasions that I have been there, Gympie hasn't exhibited much in the way of bustle! The bottom line is that our C210 hero was way out of line from the moment he keyed his mike and I would have been hard pressed not to advise him of the fact. You'll probably find that he was barrelling in to a familiar field, intending to join on base or even straight in and was thrown by the fact that he had other traffic with a fair speed differential to contend with.:hittinghead:

 

 

[Spin]

Haha, I see several of us were tapping away in response at the same time!

 

 

[The Wolf]

RA-Aus website says

 

Carriage of VHF radio is usually not mandatory within the vicinity of a non-towered aerodrome but all radio-equipped aircraft must make the prescribed broadcasts on the CTAF

So your mate was in the right. Even though many can omit calls to prevent channel congestion, the other pilot was well out of line to tell you what to do!

 

 

[Philthy]

Chaps,

 

Bear in mind that this is probably going to change as of June 3 as CASA is planning to amend CAR 166 & CAR 166A, including changes to the required broadcasts.

 

Hopefully CASA will have some pilot education material out on this shortly.

 

Philthy

 

 

[Matt]

Thanks Phil, knew that was coming and hopefully it puts some common sense and pilot decision making back in place i.e. minimum calls mandatory then make calls as required by the situation.

 

 

[XP503]

Thanks for your input guys, and Matt thank you for finding that in the AIP for me, I was going to do that when I got a chance.

 

It really was bizarre how rude this other pilot was over the radio, at one point I remember him saying (yelling) over the radio that he was going to be complaining to CASA's John Mckormick about all these calls blocking up the airways......

 

Little bit distracting when you're coming in to land.....

 

My friend wasn't speaking slow or messing up any calls, and wasn't stopping anyone else from broadcasting.

 

 

[Bidgee]

Ditto what others have said although I generally dont make the downwind call having joined mid xwind as AC is not at the "turning downwind" position.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

this is were recording the transmissions comes in handy. Easy and cheap to do these days, not only can you forward it with your compliant on to CASA to handle but you can also post it on various websites and forums to humble the impolite types.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[68volksy]

It could be worthwhile reporting the matter to CASA if the 210 gave you a registration number. Something for them to put on their file anyway. If the guy is known to them (good chance by the sound of it) they'll give him some grief.

 

The guy would have no chance in hell of convincing the CASA CEO to reduce any requirement to make radio calls. There pushing to make radios more widely used and necessary. A good thing as traffic continues to increase in my view

 

 

[68volksy]

Just speaking to one of our friendly CASA aviation safety advisors and she is more than happy to handle any queries. She confirmed that all the correct calls were made and it was right to do so unless operational requirements preclude the making of calls. Quoted the AIP as printed above.

 

She also thought it prudent to point out that CTAF procedures would be changing on the 3rd of June and that those of us who use CTAF's should get along to one of their presentations over the next few months. The changes are pretty minor from what I understand but it's good to stay current.

 

Her name's Teraya and you can contact her on 0434 558 088 or [email protected]. She can put you in touch with the person running your local presentation if needed.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Really poor form by the 210 driver, just keep on doing what you are doing!:thumb_up:

 

 

[Ultralights]

after the base call a C210 that was inbound came over the radio blasting my friend's use of the radio saying that so many calls were unnecessary, the pilot was extremely rude and pretty much yelling through the radio, I have never seen such a lack of courtesy over the radio.

my response would have been "cessna 210 ABC, do you know where i am in the circuit?" if reply is Yes, then "well im not going to make any less radio calls then "

 

 

[ossie]

Not sticking up for the 210 driver, his outburst was totally unprofessional, but a calls at every corner of the circuit and clearing the RWY are NOT mandatory, and in most cases completely unnecessary.

 

The AIP reference posted earlier should be read in full and not 'in parts' as extracted to prove a point. What's not been mentioned is the definition of a "Report" and a "Broadcast", the definitions are clearly laid out at the start of that AIP reference.

 

Also, one should read their ERSA. An increasing number of CTAF ® aerodromes have recommendations regarding radio calls, check them out...........:thumb_up:

 

Cheers

 

Os

 

 

[68volksy]

Surely someone flying around without a radio would rather as much information regarding your whereabouts as possible though.

 

I think it's good practice to provide as much information as humanly possible to help keep myself and others safe. If this means doing something that is not considered mandatory why wouldn't you?

 

Radio calls are purely for the safety of yourself and those around you - not just to meet AIP requirements.

 

 

[Spin]

Not sure I get your point ossie, my ERSA doesn't say anything about non standard communications at Gympie, save for pointing out aero-tow activities and recommending an inbound call:raise_eyebrow:

 

 

[Mazda]

Remember that the airspace end state is NAS, where there should be quite a few recommended calls but few mandated calls, leaving the airmanship up to the pilot.

 

Spin at the moment he couldn't legally join on base, but if the proposed changes go ahead base joins will come in with the CTAF changes.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Here's a link to the NPRM for the proposed changes to CAR 166

 

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - NPRM 0908OS - Carriage and use of Radio and Circuit Procedures at, or in the vicinity of, Non-Towered Aerodromes

 

 

[Bill Hamilton]

---that this is probably going to change as of June 3

Folks,

 

Nothing "probably" about it, the change is on.

 

Regards,

 

 

[ossie]

Not sure I get your point ossie, my ERSA doesn't say anything about non standard communications at Gympie, save for pointing out aero-tow activities and recommending an inbound call:raise_eyebrow:

Well, Gympie is a CTAF not a CTAF®, hence the recommendation for an inbound call. If Gympie was a CTAF® that comment wouldn't exist.

 

Read the definition of a "broadcast" that may help

 

 

[poteroo]

One positive way to accomodate more traffic is for pilots to learn brevity in broadcasting.

 

Less of the Ums, ahs, I am currently, I am estimating,and similar.... will be a good start. The initial inbound calls seem to be worst done. They need to be brief - but informative, eg:

 

XXX TRAFFIC, ABC IS 10 MILES SE, 2500, XXX 08

 

As far as circuit calls go - sure, students should know when and where they are recommended to call - but, there's no prize for getting in each and every call, especially if you are missing aviate/navigate items. We often reduce radio calls during circuits back to a downwind only - but have the student make the others on the intercom.

 

Regardless of what the CASA CEO thinks - there is a need for common sense in radio use, and as a crusty old b.....d, who was flying before our dear leader - I have an obligation to teach my students how to fly sensibly. I will continue to use a liberal interpretation of the word 'recommended' in radio calls.

 

We are fast becoming a nation of procedurally correct pilots at the expense of manipulative skills.

 

happy days,