Gundy Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 That's fair enough. But there's no difference with bugs and rain going into breather as they are facing forward. I have herd and seen the way the factory does there breathers, they can and do turn in flight so you lose positive pressure to your tank. That's probably the biggest factor why I put the stand up breathers on. Gundy
Kyle Communications Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 I will keep the excess of the tube coming out of the bottom of the wing short also I have cable tied them inside the wing so they can not rotate although it would be hard for them to do so with the bend over at the top keeping them in position anyway. The water issue would be harder to get in as it would have to travel about 300mm vertical up the tube where the hook type ones have gravity helping something go into the tank. I really don't think it matters in the end as there are heaps flying with the hooks and no one seems to be having any issues with it anyway. For me I thought it ws a better method and less likey scenario not necessarily the best way Mark
rankamateur Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Mark, What prompted your decision to fit the extension tanks will the fillers together instead of separated like they do at the factory? Did you know of pros and cons?
Kyle Communications Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 I looked into it and could find no cons the only real pro is that when most guys refill the tanks they have to keep moving their step ladder from one position to the other to fill through the tank entry this way I don't I can place the ladder in 1 spot and fill both tanks without mucking around with shifting fuel containers and resetting everything the more you move step ladders around and get up and down the more likely to trip or spill fuel. In my hangar up at the farm I will have a overhead refuelling rig that I can just move the hose from one hole to the other without getting up and down and shifting everything. There was no reason other than symmetry for the tank caps to be so far apart that I could see or find Mark 1
Kyle Communications Posted February 5, 2012 Author Posted February 5, 2012 Well what a week its been. Got the right wing undercoated man this 2 pack stuff is really hard. Spent most of the week sanding the undercoat I am over this sanding because its all done by hand. The orbital sander isn't any good because the skins are light and they bend really easily so you can't get the sander to sand evenly so it was sanded with normal paper then all done again with wet and dry. The wing has an enormous surface area especially when you con side the top AND the bottom. Anyway got the white painted on this morning and its pretty reasonable have to wait a day or two now before I mask off the 2 red sunburst stripes that will be on the top. While waiting to so this the flaperons are now being worked on the tips going in and the small brackets at either end. I took the tip ribs out that face each other that join the 2 flaperons together and cut a fitted a small strengthening piece into the ends as recommended by Reg. That is all done now so its back into them with the scotchbrite and then etch then undercoat and paint all over again. then of course its the left wing and start the same process all over again. I was hoping to have the plane assembled by the end of the month but somehow I don't think so...just hope we don't have too much more rain and the days and nights are a bit cooler...been sweating my backside off this past week in the shed doing all this hand sanding. Mark
Kyle Communications Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 Got some more painting done this week. I was going to do a sunburst of red on the top of the wing but I decided it was going to be a fair drama so I thought about what would be easier but still have the desired effect which is to be hi-vis when turning or looking from above. So I came up with a sort of symmetrical tick which doesn't go over the flaperons so less masking and painting. It should look like a stick figure of a bird or a big M (for mark) or a W depending on your direction I suppose. I wanted to break up all the white so I am pretty happy with it but won't know until the wings go on. Still working on the flaperons have both tips installed now and have been scotchbriting them ready for some etch prime Mark
Kyle Communications Posted February 20, 2012 Author Posted February 20, 2012 Hi All I want to ask if anyone has modified their flap lever position. I have been flying a VGXL to get my licence and I am having a real problem operating the flap lever to full flap position. First stage is no issue its only when the lever is getting close to the crotch that I can't get enough leverage onto it. If I use my right hand under my leg to get it to the full flap position I can but that means letting the main stick go and not a good move when landing. I was looking at moving the whole assembly forward but I have come up with a better idea and that is to keep the brackets the same but just move the pivot point and the indents to suit so I get the same movement of the flap but the lever will sit further forward and a bit lower in the no flap position. I want to have my full flap position where the first stage of flap is then I reckon it will all be sweet. Its easy to make the 2 new side plates for the flap control and all I need to do is make a new set of holes and indents. I will draw this up and get them laser cut then bent from 6061. For smaller guys it doesn't seem to be a issue but for us big bum guys we sit too far forward so can not get the mechanical advantage as your left arm is too close and low to operate the flap to the full position. Does anyone know someone that has modified this? Mark
Gundy Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Try electric flaps mark. My thought on moving it forward it would be a real prick to get in and out of the plane. Only my thoughts Gundy
Kyle Communications Posted February 20, 2012 Author Posted February 20, 2012 Hi Greg Not sure if I like the electric flaps they were on the C172 I used to fly back in the mid 90's they didn't fuss me then I always felt I didn't actually control them. I was looking at the manual one on the Sav yesterday and trying to think of a better way. The flap lever is a pain now to get my legs around as I get in I have to get my leg over it ( oh it would to be good to be a smaller unit) but if it was in the same place but the flap lever was actually more forward it maybe easier to get in and get my leg over. The flap lever would be more forward maybe about 120mm on the arc this may be a better solution. next weekend I will look at it in more detail and do some angular drawings to make sure the actual flap movement is the same and what sort of angle it will be. Its just I have never seen the flap lever ever modified by anyone before. I should have the undercoat all sanded by the weekend so I can paint the last wing and all the flaperons so while waiting for it to dry I will look harder at this flap situation. Thanks for advice I never thought of electric flaps but I suppose it is always a option
Gundy Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Yeh I rack my brain and I can't think of any way around it. I'll keep thinking. Gundy
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm starting to get used to mine Mark after 35 hrs - I only have it jump out occassionally now, and tend not to use full flap a lot, but I agree that it could be better. I thought a better notch gate setup for the rear position, a stronger spring perhaps or even an angled handle fwd with a different locking pin system might work. Not being the engineering type I'll leave that to you guys.
eightyknots Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Hi AllI want to ask if anyone has modified their flap lever position. I have been flying a VGXL to get my licence and I am having a real problem operating the flap lever to full flap position. First stage is no issue its only when the lever is getting close to the crotch that I can't get enough leverage onto it. If I use my right hand under my leg to get it to the full flap position I can but that means letting the main stick go and not a good move when landing. I was looking at moving the whole assembly forward but I have come up with a better idea and that is to keep the brackets the same but just move the pivot point and the indents to suit so I get the same movement of the flap but the lever will sit further forward and a bit lower in the no flap position. I want to have my full flap position where the first stage of flap is then I reckon it will all be sweet. Its easy to make the 2 new side plates for the flap control and all I need to do is make a new set of holes and indents. I will draw this up and get them laser cut then bent from 6061. For smaller guys it doesn't seem to be a issue but for us big bum guys we sit too far forward so can not get the mechanical advantage as your left arm is too close and low to operate the flap to the full position. Does anyone know someone that has modified this? Mark Have you tried Reg ....or JG3 at stolspeed... whether they have any ideas?
Kyle Communications Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 No I havent spoken to either of them yet....only really decided late last week to start thinking about it. Its not a issue on first stage of flap only the last stage and pretty much not required at this stage but for short fields of course it is. Mark
bobcharl Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Hi Mark, Interesting problem you have encountered with your flap lever. Re electric flaps, the Jabiru I am currently flying uses electric and I quite like them even if they are a little slow. One thing you may need to consider if you go electric is some form of position indicator. Jab do it mechanically with a bowdern cable . Works fine, but looks like an afterthought. I'm sure you could come up with better. Having said that, I think it is important when customising something, that you end up with what you need and like rather than what the rest of us think you should have. Noted the problem Ballpoint 246niner has had with the lever not holding in the notch. Wonder if the notches need to be made a little deeper during assembly? Is it a widespread problem? By coincidence, I am assembling my flap lever at the moment, but can't locate the smaller bits (knob,spring, bushes etc.) You don't remember what they were packed with do you? Looking forward to hearing of your first flight , Mark. Regards, Bob
Kyle Communications Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 Hi Bob If I remember right they were actually packed and wrapped in plastic with something else. Yes Bills sometimes jumps out...or should I say used to he put a stronger spring in the top and that stopped it. I can't do any painting this weekend as it is pissing down here so will drive my attention to the flap position. I was just having a good look and I think it will be quite easy infact you could modify the existing side plates but I will do a drawing up and get them laser cut from 6061 sheet then if anyone wants to do the same it will be a easy refit as no parts will be changed so to speak only the 2 sideplates Mark
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 The manual flap idea is still on the money, and give me one any day over electric, particularly in STOL work, apart from being simpler and faster you can get the flaps on exactly when you want them when they're in you hand. I was thinking more about this and apart from the firmer spring, it's more to do with the human mechanical advantage past the centre point that seems to be the culprit. hence my suggestion for a bent fwd lever, but perhaps a fwd grip extension, or building up the front of the lever in some way without causing routing operation problems may help. Anyway it's the last thing I need to operate, and whenever you fly the thing you have a smile on your face and flying heaps of different aircraft each day, that says something in my book. Like Maj in earlier posts, it's hard not to be impressed by the Savannah. Everyone i've had in it from draggers to HP jockeys are pleasantly surprised and impressed. I officially declare Qld summers as a flying downer. Bring on Autumn next week.
Kyle Communications Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 Hi Neil yes the full flap is past the 90deg angle it should be easy to mod the unit for better operation just by shifting the pivot point and extending the arc with the notches in it .......the bottom arc that has the flap actuator attached will stay the same just the lever will move forward on the pivot so just need to extend the top arc and make the new notches...although the current 1st stage notch will be the new full flap position I think Mark
Kyle Communications Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 Hi All The weather has been crap up here so drilled out the flap mount and started working on the new version. There was a lot to consider but the main issue was to make sure my new positions were at the same distance operating points on the flaperon mixer operating bar. I measured the distance that the bar travelled for each flap position and my new curves and locking points were to make the operating bar exactly the same which they are so I am very happy with it. The pivot point has moved forward and down the reason is to make sure the only thing I am replacing is the side plates of the mechanism I was the lever and springs and bushes to be the same no mods for them. I did have to change a few heights on the main slot where it is placed in the side plates due to the new angles and the main operating rod to make sure it had clearance distantce from the bottom of the fuselage skin and didn't get too high either.. Attached is a colour scan of the original plate in blue and my new drawing in black this shows the difference. The flap lever for full flap will be around 45mm more forward than the original but the mechanical advantage will be greater the flap lever is not over centre like originally so it should be a lot easier to get to full flap not so much pressure on the lever. I will chase up the laser cutter guy this week and get a set made and see how it all fits Mark savflap2.pdf savflap2.pdf savflap2.pdf
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Hi AllThe weather has been crap up here so drilled out the flap mount and started working on the new version. There was a I did have to change a few heights on the main slot where it is placed in the side plates due to the new angles ..... Mark Can't wait to see how it improves the action -well done Mark
Kyle Communications Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 I have been doing some calls and research into these brackets before committing it to laser. In doing all this I have found out some interesting things about the different alu used in aircraft and ultralights. I ended up going to see Ralph at ASAP aircraft spares at Caboolture airfield. Ralph is the guy rebuilding the Beaufort bomber and he has some incredible guys volunteering and working for him. Real master craftsmen in aircraft building and airframe maintenance. I took my original brackets then to show one of the guru's and spoke to him at length about what he thought would be the best. They use 2024 alu for all aircraft stuff I thought it was mainly 6061 but apparently not. The issue is to get the right angle bend at the bottom the 6061 will crack as it is too hard even the low tempers. What they do is use 2024 (zero) temper then do the bends and then heat treat the pieces which brings the whole unit up to a T4 temper. They have their own oven there for this purpose for all the bending for the Beaufort. So I got some 63 thou sheet cut (0) temper and they bent the bottom edge for me then tomorrow they will heat treat it will have to wait another 2 days for ageing then I can cut out my slots and drill all the holes and it will be ready to try. I have decided to do it by hand for this first one to make sure it will come up all ok to my drawing. I can work accurately enough my metal working skills were finely honed when I was at the apprentice training school at SEQEB back in the late 1970's. I spent about 23 weeks hacksawing and filing all types and thicknesses of metal ...made many useful tools by hand also made a lot of very useless tools as well. I replaced the 2 outside nose leg strengthener plates that were made from aluminium these brackets do crack if you give the nose wheel a hard time on the Savs its a common issue. Not to difficult to replace but I made 2 new ones from stainless steel. I got some sheet and bent it and then hacksawed and filed the two mirrored plates they fitted perfectly so I am confident I can do a good job on this flap bracket. Will post some pics when I get this underway should have the alu tomorrow after its been heat treated Going flying in the morning...looking forward to it as well
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Good one Mark- Yep Ralph and the boys are incredibily talented committed aviotors- we're lucky to have such guardian's at YCAB. I heard you and Bill out this morning, I was in the trike with a student. Hope your flying is going well....
Kyle Communications Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 Hi Neil Yes Ron was the guy I was dealing with today....he is one talented guy its a pity we will be losing all this talent as the new crop don't do so much hands on work actually making the parts now all that metal working skill will go. No it wasn't me this morning I had a dr appointment that was Peter with Bill....I will be going tomorrow morning after peter should be away by 9 or 9.30am....maybe going solo tomorrow too :).... Mark
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I'll be listening out for the call..... good one mate!!
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