Another NEW Savannah XL on its way

[Kyle Communications]

Hi All

 

Just doing some updates. Both wings are painted I have the flaperons finished waiting for painting probably during this week. The wing struts and jury struts are all painted the new flap bracket is installed. As soon as I have the flaperons painted I will shift the fuselage back into the shed and start the total assembly for the final finishing pieces. So maybe it could be ready to go to YCAB for final assembly and inspection early next month

 

I made a quick video on the new flap bracket if you want to see it operational. I am very happy with the way it has turned out just won't know how good it works until she flys

 

 

Mark

 

 

[pudestcon]

Very well explained Mark, a great descriptive video.

 

The work looks very well done, and a professional standard.

 

Well done mate.

 

Pud

 

 

[eightyknots]

Hi AllJust doing some updates. Both wings are painted I have the flaperons finished waiting for painting probably during this week. The wing struts and jury struts are all painted the new flap bracket is installed. As soon as I have the flaperons painted I will shift the fuselage back into the shed and start the total assembly for the final finishing pieces. So maybe it could be ready to go to YCAB for final assembly and inspection early next month

I made a quick video on the new flap bracket if you want to see it operational. I am very happy with the way it has turned out just won't know how good it works until she flys

 

Well done Mark. As you know, I'm also 6' 3" and I may be knocking on your door for the plan when I get around to building my own Sav. Just one question, was the original, ICP-supplied bracket also made from 2024? If not, I was just wondering why you chose 2024 for your modified bracket??

 

 

[eightyknots]

80KAustralian Holiday any time soon???

R A, I come to Australia regularly (I have been across the Tasman ten times in the last two years). Who's a good Savannah instructor in Eastern Australia (particularly SE QLD, Sydney or Northern Rivers NSW)?

 

 

[rankamateur]

I believe there are two in SE Qld and another in central Qld ,unfortunately I am not one of their students so am not qualified to recommend.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi 80Kts

 

I fly with Bill Grieve (Aeroskill) there is also GoFly at Caboolture...Ballpoint 249 has a Savannah commonly known as "Jaffa" he does stol training and all dual training in it also conversions I am sure Neil at GoFly could help you as well

 

I am not sure if the original bracket is 6061 but the bending of 1.6mm alu 6061 would crack it its too hard. When I spoke to the guys rebuilding the beaufort bomber from scratch here at YCAB they told me pretty much all aircraft are 2024 and you bend it at zero temper then temper it to T4 then cut it out...Thats what I did and my bracket is certainly stronger than the original that came in the kit. It doesn't move too much side to side like the original did. They also told me that the 6061 alu came to be more popular in ultralights due to the higher strength and rigidity required for these light airframes. Most "commercial" ones are done the old fashion way when it comes to brackets and bulkheads etc...skins maybe different I am not sure but I am sure my bracket will last the distance

 

Mark

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi All

 

I found something interesting while doing my final assembly stuff yesterday. I have been testing the fuel tanks for leaks in all fittings and hoses and calibrating them in 5 litre marks on the sight gauges. When I fitted the main output fitting for the tanks I made sure that I fitted them in as low as possible into the little sump area in the bottom rear of the tank so that pretty much all the fuel will drain. I filled the outer starboard tank first and all the fuel I had was 32litrs so I did the markings to 30 litres as 35 is pretty much the limit to what I can see in the gauge anyway. I drained the tank from the main output fuel hose that goes to the engine until all the fuel had stopped I then plugged that line again and preceded to do the inner tank. When I filled the tank I didn't have enough fuel so where did over 2 litres go???????...I looked into the outer tank and noticed that there was still fuel in the bottom...quite a lot so I drained the inner tank and sure enough when it was saying empty it too had a reasonable amount of fuel still in it when looking in from the filler hole. Now I have the wing perfectly flat sitting on the bottom this is done on 2 tables. I lifted up the leading edge with 3 inches of foam to put all the fuel down the back to get it all out. Total to come out was around 4.5 litres from both tanks. I think that is quite a lot. So if you think your on the edge and want to get all the fuel out of the tanks make sure you go into a climb to totally drain the tanks.

 

I hope to put the right wing on tomorrow or the next day if I can get a hand from 2 other guys then also try to put the other wing on as well. I still have little jobs to finish everywhere the other thing I did today was give the steering arm on the nose leg some clearance...its a bit rough I did it with a dremel as its a big job to get the nose leg out but what happens is when the aircraft is on the ground the weight keeps the nose leg slightly depressed. The steering bar is about 1 mm from the side support plates....I remade mine from stainless steel if you remember when you take the weight off the nose leg just like when you take off the nose leg droops that little bit and the 2 small steering bars rest onto the support bracket making your rudder control inside the plane a bit stiffer . So I ground and filed as much as I could to make sure it didn't hit when the nose leg was off the ground. It worked out to be about 1 to 1.5mm I had to shave off...it looks a little ugly at the moment but until I need to actually get in there to do some work it can stay like that as it works and is functional....and you can't see it easily :)

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

Now I have the wing perfectly flat sitting on the bottom this is done on 2 tables. I lifted up the leading edge with 3 inches of foam to put all the fuel down the back to get it all out. Total to come out was around 4.5 litres from both tanks. I think that is quite a lot. So if you think your on the edge and want to get all the fuel out of the tanks make sure you go into a climb to totally drain the tanks.

You'd better not wait too long otherwise you would have no fuel to go into the climb to access the 'hidden' fuel reserve.

 

If you have four tanks, that is 18 litres that you would not be able to get at until you climb: that is around three times the capacity of the reserve tank!

 

I was wondering Mark if the flat wing test is actually fully accurate? (I imagine that the wing would be elevated somewhat at the leading edge at S & L flight because of the usual AOA. Perhaps the 4-1/2 litres per tank scenario is not quite so bad if you take this into consideration??)

 

 

[rankamateur]

You'd better not wait too long otherwise you would have no fuel to go into the climb to access the 'hidden' fuel reserve.

Shouldn't matter while ever you have some altitude in your credit account and the energy to push the stick forward.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi 80Kts

 

No it was 4.5 litres from BOTH tanks total...so around 2 litres per tank so a total of 8 litres....but lets put it this way if you are down to this fuel....you are already in big big trouble :)

 

 

[eightyknots]

That sounds a lot better than I first thought? Do you think that the natural angle that the wing is at when flying Straight and Level would lessen that as well?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

well I have seen a few flying and the wing does seem to be reasonably level in cruise...and the one I fly doesn't seem to have any nose up in cruise either....but as I said if you are into that fuel then you are really in trouble anyway....I won't know until I get some time up in mine especially when I drain a tank I will be able to tell you after that....cant wait until I get this plane flying......really struggling though to find a hangar at caboolture......Gympie is the next one but someone mentioned Caloundra the other day and I hadn't thought of there even though thats where I do most of my training so will try to find something there as well

 

Mark

 

 

[eightyknots]

 

At least Caloundra is a reasonable distance, compared to Gympie. I hope your first choice pays off and you can secure hangar space at Caboolture!

 

 

[sfGnome]

well I have seen a few flying and the wing does seem to be reasonably level in cruise...and the one I fly doesn't seem to have any nose up in cruise either....

Straight and level, you still have to be creating lift, which means that there will be some angle of attack. The dim, dark and distant recesses of my memory tell me that something like 4 deg is common. So, if your wing chord is roughly 1m, then the front of the wing is going to be roughly 70mm above the back in that case.

Then again, I could be wrong...

 

 

[eightyknots]

Straight and level, you still have to be creating lift, which means that there will be some angle of attack. The dim, dark and distant recesses of my memory tell me that something like 4 deg is common. So, if your wing chord is roughly 1m, then the front of the wing is going to be roughly 70mm above the back in that case.Then again, I could be wrong...

Thanks for that info, sfG: The 70 mm rise at the front of the wing would be fairly represented by Mark's 3 inch (76mm) foam blocks during the fuel test. Therefore, there is nothing really to worry about

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi All

 

Well what a week its been here.....had some helping hands on Monday so managed to fit the wings on so I can get all those "other" jobs done. The wings went on nicely good fit to the mounts same with the struts so I started to fit the flaperons.......uh oh...they don't fit properly......

 

The flaperon pin hinge that is riveted to the fuselage is not in the right position. It doesn't really take any load its just a hinge point for the bracket that is riveted to the flaperon where the control rods also fit. If the hinge is in the right position there is no load on it. I was told when I first got the Sav about this maybe out a bit sometimes around half a hole well mine is a good full hole out. I spoke to Reg to see what he did and he removes the bolt from the steel plate re-drills the hole and fits it all back into the same holes all bar the new pivot hole of course. The other way of course is to drill the new pivot hole and at least 3 new holes then put a alu plate on the inside and rivet it in. I looked at both methods and thought grinding out the welded bolts and using the same mounts would be better so thats the way I did it. You will see the series of pics I have taken over the course of all this. I was going to Tig the bolts back but I have my argoshield gas up at the farm with the mig so that wasn't the answer so I got the trusty old Oxy out and silver soldered the bolts in. They won't come out now.

 

I have been trying to find what puts this measurement out and as far as I can see I have not done anything wrong or miscued any measurement. The fuselage sides you can not stuff that up and the rear wing mounts have to be right by the way the whole thing is put together. so as far as anything on the fuselage is concerned you can't stuff it up...well you could of course not get your cabin frame square but that will offset the wing to the tailplane not to the flaperon hinge pin. I then looked at the wing and the way it is put together you can not change any of that either the only thing would be the flaperon hanger brackets but even those you can not stuff them up either so blowed if I know why its out but it is and anyone building be ready to make some mods so do not rivet that into the fuselage until you are ready to fit the flaperons. I ran a string line from the rear tip of my wings to the middle of the tailplane leading edge at the tailplane tips and the measurement was within 1 or 2 mm of each other so my wing is certainly square to the tailplane. The hinge pin new hole is EXACTLY the same amount out on each side so at least it is built symmetrically . Let me know how others have solved the problem or even if they have had the issue. The whole aircraft is cnc'd so its literally impossible to stuff it up when assembling in the terms of squareness and positioning of components so who knows...anyway its all fixed and the flaperons are nice and smooth and my new flap lever works a treat too and feels very nice as well.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

I'm sorry you had that set-back with the flaperon pin hinge, Mark. The way you described it, it seems impossible to have mis-assembled something. Perhaps the Italian ICP chaps were having an extended smoko (with one Vittoria too many before they got back to work) when that was put in place?

 

A good thing you are able to alert others to this potential problem. I wonder if this was a problem with the VG? ...or S?? Could this be an XL issue only?

 

 

[rankamateur]

Mark have a look across the top of your wings now they are on and see if the rows of rivets on one wing line up with the rows of rivets on the other, if they don't then the cause of this may be contributing to your alignment problem.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Mark does your shed have removable mullions between your rolloer doors so you can roll the plane out? I have been considering this option between two 5m roller doors!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Steve

 

No my shed doesn't its a 15mtr X 7 mtr shed It would be nice if it did have removable sections as the shed at my old place which was a 9x6 had them. The Sav just fits in length ways but the wings fit easily in this shed. I am putting the whole thing together and fitting everything off so when all the jobs are finished all I will do is remove the wings and fuel hoses and the relative wing connections then put it on the trailer and take her to the airfield. Put the wings and reconnect the controls and wiring then get the inspection done...I hope to have it ready for inspection after the day I get it to the hangar...so it will be here a couple of weeks until all is finished.

 

A couple of pics of the rivet lines....they are almost perfect...maybe a mm or so difference between the tips...I did string the wing to the tailplane and its pretty much perfect....The rear of the wing mounts determine a lot the only real difference must be in either the flaperons or the hanger/hinge wing brackets......and its pretty hard not to put all of those parts together correctly otherwise noting would fit together

 

 

 

 

 

[rankamateur]

I have seen two planes on which the rivet rows don't line up, one line is about 20mm behind the other. Haven't got close to working out how you could build one like it, even if you wanted to. One of them had a trim tab on the aileron to try and make it fly straight, which you shouldn't need if it is all straight. Of course short people, like we aren't, would probrably never notice what they can't see.

 

Edited for 80Kts

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

the only way they could be out is the front wing mounts f you did not take the care required when setting all that cabin frame up then the wings would be out....you can't stuff up the rear ones unless the fuselage is not square

 

 

[eightyknots]

I have seen two that don't line up, one line is about 20mm behind the other. Haven't got close to working out how you could build one like it, even if you wanted to. One of them had a trim tab on the aileron to try and make it fly straight, which you shouldn't need if it is all straight. Of course short people, like we aren't, would probrably never notice what they can't see.

You must have a better screen than me, rankamateur. I have tried looking at the rivets on my work and home computer and I cannot see the 20mm error.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi 80Kts

 

No he is not saying mine are 20mm out he has seen 2 other different Sav that are.....Mine is pretty much spot on

 

 

[rankamateur]

You must have a better screen than me, rankamateur. I have tried looking at the rivets on my work and home computer and I cannot see the 20mm error.

I am refering to looking at real planes at fly-ins and looking over the top of the wing, the little soldiers on one side usually line up precisely with the little soldiers on the other side, as they should with CNC produced components.