John Nooyen Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 correction. the 5mm Neeta vynil tube was from Clark rubber at $1.00/Meter correction. the 5mm Neeta vynil tube was from Clark rubber at $1.00/Meter I just used a couple strips of the $4 a roll foam weather strip from super cheap or Crazy Clarkes. It has its own adhesive. As it is squeezed between the tank and skin, it won't move.(It's good around the doors too.) The adhesive is extremely good and cannot be removed easily.Around the fillers I used some 1.5-2 mm thick black foam sheet from Clark rubber. Make a square and cut a hole to fit it on the filler hole, then fit the tank.(No glue required). I soaked it in fuel for a couple days to make sure it didn't melt. I also used Neeta 5mm vinyl tube fron Crazy clarks for the sight tubes. You need to leave a lot of slack as it does shrink a bit. Te first lot lasted for 6 years and was still OK. I changed it when I did all the fuel lines. It does yellow and goes a bit harder, but is still flexible. Bot sight gauges cost about $2.00 total. These are only what I did. and suggestions only. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 26, 2010 Author Share Posted September 26, 2010 Hi all I worked on the wings yesterday and today. Forgot to take my camera with me to get some more pics :( . Anyway yesterday I tried fitting the fibreglass tip to the wing...well that process has got big knobs on it its the worst part of this whole build so far. In fact I have given up on it for the time until I have a look at Steve's wings tomorrow or the next day so I made a cradle to hold the both wings for when they are completed to keep them safe and out of the way. I made the simple cradle and shifted the left wing into it and then put the half done right wing on the table. I taped off the areas under the rib seams that I need now for the glue and fitted the skin tensioner that was bent the wrong way as it wont make any difference got all the skins clecoed then turned the wing over to fit the nose skin sheet and get it all setup ready to pull it around the nose ribs when Denice was handy to add a extra pair of hands. Well it got it all blocked up and the straps on etc and pulled some tension on the skin. This time after the first one I added a couple of extra pieces of wood to help bend the skin around at the nose. I will scan a drawing of how I did it...Well after getting it all setup and the straps pulled up a bit I just went ahead and pulled them up a bit more and the extra wood rails I put work so well I continued on and bingo the skin was pulled up to the right holes it was so easy I couldn't believe it...and its a much better job than the first skin I did. I will get over there this week and take some more pictures. I wont be working on the plane now for a couple of weeks. I am getting married (so I have broken 2 out of the three rules in the 3 F rule :) ) next Saturday and then have to go up to the property on the Tuesday and Wednesday and hope the sewerage tank install doesn't get put off by rain again so it will be the following weekend when I get a go at it again. That weekend I will attempt those bloody wing tips again. Does anyone have any tips on how to struggle with the wingtip moulding. I thought they were plastic on other savs but mine are molded fibreglass Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 The last set of tips I fitted were the molded plastic I believe. You just have to set them up using clecos as best you can. They do require a bit of trimming also, but not too much. I also used a heatgun on them to shape them a bit for a better fit. You will find a position where they seem to sit right, and I believe it is best to start Pop riviting them along the top first, so that they match the curve of the leading edge. Then you have to go over to the other wingtip and match that one up..in reverse. Just perservere looking for the best fit, they do come out looking pretty good once in, and the gaps around the edges can be filled with a white paintable sealant (not silicon). If yours are fiberglass they should also thermosoften a little, for molding, with a heat gun. Good Luck..............................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 3 Fs? Hi allI wont be working on the plane now for a couple of weeks. I am getting married (so I have broken 2 out of the three rules in the 3 F rule :) ) next Saturday and then have to go up to the property on the Tuesday and Wednesday and hope the sewerage tank install doesn't get put off by rain again so it will be the following weekend when I get a go at it again. Mark You have me intrigued about the 3 Fs. Mark, I hope all goes well at the wedding on Saturday: best wishes to Mr and Mrs Spectre!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted September 29, 2010 Author Share Posted September 29, 2010 Hi All Had to go to the mother in laws place today so took the camera to show how I did the nose skin bend this time. The straps are the same as the previous pics on the left wing but when they come over the front of the nose sheet this time there are 2 pieces of wood that travel the entire length of the nose shin. The first one sitting on the spacer off the table is on the flat side and the top one is on its edge. When you tighten the strap the bottom one pulls in and makes the skin hug the bottom section of the rib the top piece then angles back onto the skin and the angle of the starp as you pull it up on tension pulls the skin around the rib. Once it was tensioned up a fair way and the skin was almost at the position I could put the clecos into the main spar I got a claw hammer and raised the top piece of wood from the bottom piece and voila the skin then pulled up nicely to the rivet holes on the spar. It really was that easy. I suppose I had the top rail about 50mm from the top of the bottom rail and it came up nicely. I am a bit disappointed at the skins for this wing there must have been something sitting in the box on the bottom main rear skin and also the bottom of the nose skin as there are 2 fairly big marks where you can see the skin has been pressed very hard and deformed there is also a bit on the nose skin near one of the VG holes you can see this in the pics. I tried to tap out one of the dents on the bottom of the nose skin but made it a little worse with marks on the alu so I have decided to leave it and put up with it...if it bothers me too much I will try to fill it somehow. I hope to use a special bent tool to try to get the one a lot better near the VG holes. You can see the left wing in its cradle at the back of the workshop Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hi All I got a chance to do some more work this weekend (I was otherwise busy getting married last weekend :) ) on the right wing. On saturday I put the epoxy into the first 2 rows of holes which I had taped off on the inside on the nose skin and also the first row behind the main spar. This is where when you put the rivets in it creates a big divet in the skin. I had to let the epoxy dry so on Sunday I came back and drilled out the holes and proceeded to rivet the rest of the wing. I am extremely happy with the result. The shape at the nose is great and there is no big pull ins behind the main spar like I have seen on every Sav. I got the rest of the wing all riveted and now just have to fit the tip skins and do those horrible fibreglass tips. I wont get a chance next weekend we are going back up to the farm to do the final hookup of the sewerage pipe and the electrical to the sewerage system that finally went in last wednesday after rain delays so getting closer now until our place is very livable. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Spectre-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I am trying to save weight in this aircraft thats why I am going for a Brauniger panel as the main instrument I should have maybe 5 or 7 kg just in all the instruments but Hi Spectre-o, I was reading some of your earlier posts on this thread (I am still looking and lurking around the all-metal, high-wing, STOL ultralight plane sites to focus my choice of aircraft that I want to build ~ the Savvy is very high up on my list). I was interested in your comment about instruments: am I right in reading that you are ditching the ICP supplied instruments altogether (to replace them by the Brauniger panel)? one of the guys said be carefull how much weight is in the carpet. I put all the carpet in a bag today..WOW I couldnt believe how much it weighed and when you add probably another KG or two for the glue thats a heap of weight...maybe up to about 10kg I would think. I will weigh the carpet this week and tell you how much it does all weigh. Even Denice was surprised at how much it weighed when I aid the carpet wont be going in she asked the obvious question so I gave her the bag of carpet. She understands now :). I was wondering about the carpet as well. Are you simply going to leave the floor bare? ...or is there a lighter substitute you are going to use?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 Hi 80Kts Yes I am not using any of the instruments except the supplied fuel pressure guage. I am selling the rest of them back to the importer, As far as the carpet goes I am not planning to put it in at all but I will paint the floor to seal it of course. If it turns out that it is too noisey in the front I can always put it in later anyway. I have flown in JG's savannah and he has no carpet in his and I didn't notice any extra noise compared to the others I have flown in. You wear a headset anyway which cuts out most noise anyway. The only other instruments going in will be a manifold pressure guage and of course I need a slip/skid ball. I have looked at a few things and posted a new thread in the avionics forum about these electronic instruments from Belite Aviation. They have some great state of the art super light most are 10 gramm instruments. I am looking at getting the slip and skid and also the turn co-ordinator which works out heaps cheaper than a combined instrument and also operates faster and truth be known more accurate than the analogue ones. I have seen some of your posts and questions around on other threads and for me to build a CH-701 would be way too much work they do take 1000 to 1500 hrs to make and lots of manual holes to drill and bits to shape etc. The Sav kit so far I am very happy with it just goes together so easily except for those wing tips of course but I am not sure if you have flown a sav yet but once you have you will be hooked they just fly so well. The most work will be building the fuselage and motor installation but I don't have to drill pretty much any holes or bend anything either. Its just a 600 + part Mechano set with 14000 rivets and its goes together square as well due to all the CNC fabrication. I am really enjoying this build and would consider once I get this one flying to purchase another kit and build it while I fly this one and then sell off the original as I find it such a enjoyable thing to do. The next one will always be better than the first one as with more experience the better you get with the building of them and also how you want to set them up Mark Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glongrid Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Fellow Savvy builder. Hi Mark, very interested in your build so far, some great pictures. I started my XL back in December 2009 & was going along nicely when my youngest, a daughter decided to move back home about 3 months ago. This literally decimated any build area in the garage I had slowly aquired to the extent I have not done a thing since. I have completed both the fin & rudder & top skinned the left wing, I think. Will have to reaquaint myself with progress in the near future. Am planning to erect a couple of garden sheds down the back to transfer her belongings into soon. I have many pictures like you but won't post as they will only confuse your thread, unless I can help someone or I need advice on a specific issue. Anyhow, keep up the good work & I will continue to monitor site to follow your build with interest. PS. The biggest issue I have is that building the savvy in Melbourne seems to make me very unique. No others near by to have site visits with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I have many pictures like you but won't post as they will only confuse your thread, unless I can help someone or I need advice on a specific issue. Hi glongrid, This thread with all of Mark's updates (and great pictures) is very valuable. You could start a new thread with your project which could be valuable to others on this forum. The biggest issue I have is that building the savvy in Melbourne seems to make me very unique. No others near by to have site visits with. This is exactly the problem I would have as there are -to my knowledge- no other Savannah XL (or any kind of Savannah) builders in my area ...and possibly the whole of New Zealand. That is what makes this forum even more valuable for people who are remote from other builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Hi Everyone Got a chance to do a bit of work on the Sav this weekend. I got the tip sheeting for the wing all completed so I have both wings basically done now although the tips are not fitted yet. That was saturday so today I only had a few hours to get building I spent a fair amount of time going through the manual and also all the pictures I have accumulated over time about how to do the tank installations. There really isn't a lot of info around on how to fit the extra tanks so I think I will try to take a heap of pictures while I am doing this section. I have spent a fair amount of time today trying to fit the main fuel exit fittings into the tanks I had some drama with them. The fittings have a flange on the inside and the thickness of the tank and the rounded inside corners they don't sit flat so after some careful filing of the fitting I managed to get them to fit reasonably well. They are also sealed from the inside and out as several builders have had the tanks leak and its a drama to fix this ones the wings are on so special attention needs to be taken to ensure all three holes and fittings in each tank are sealed. I used some sealant i got from Supacheap that is petrol resistant I will get the name and post it here it seems to be pretty good so far but then again I haven't tested the tanks yet but it looks and feels fine. I ordered some 1/4 inch alu tubing from Action aluminium for the extensions required to get the extra fuel tank level indicators back to the cockpit. I haven't cut out the lower skins yet for the extra tanks I want to have a fiddle with the main tanks first just to sort everything. Will be away up at the property next weekend doing some earthworks filling in the trenches and around the tanks now the Ecosafe system has had the final inspection this week from the plumbing inspector, don't want any of the cattle stomping on the exposed pipes etc then I will be full on into the build the next weekend and will post plenty of pictures. Will also take some pics of my runways they are starting to grass up nicely now so I need to get a full sheet of steel reenforcing up there so I can tow it around with the tractor to make sure the ground is nice and level on the strips and even out any bumps. The other side of this is that this will help spread the new grass growth over the strips so they should then cover nicely especially with all this rain predicted over christmas. On another matter have you guys ever priced windsocks...they are really expensive for a decent one around 500 or 600 bucks for something reasonable. I was surfing tonight and found a guy in NZ who sells them for NZ$90 for the sock and NZ$150 for the metal swivel frame opening this is like 1/3 the price of here then of course the aussie dollar is at 1.31 so the exchange rate should about pay for the freight. I have sent him a email and will see how it turns out and let everyone know how it turns out So until next time Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi Mark, what size windsock are you looking for? The Downunder Pilot Shop in Napier (NZ) sells windsock frames from as little as $NZD86.89: Airport Wind Sock Frame 10in When you order something from NZ make sure you get them to sell it to you without the GST included, because it is going overseas. As the GST rate here is 15% it is another saving which will help pay for your postage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 The Recreational Flying Shop has windsocks and frames...the only issue with frames and this is irrespective of from who you purchase it from is not the weight but the bulk size that increases the shipping cost dramatically. They are pretty easy to make up yourself if you have a welder or know someone that does...you just need to work out an appropriate swivel mechanism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 25, 2010 Author Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi 80Kts Thanks for the lead on the windsocks also I was going through the savannah threads looking for info about fuel tanks and came across one that a NZ guys says there are at least 7 Savannahs in NZ he doesn't say where they are but maybe its worth a PM to him to find out. Ian I did a search on your shop and a search for wind or windsock didn't bring anything up on the "all categories" Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Ian I did a search on your shop and a search for wind or windsock didn't bring anything up on the "all categories" Mark Mark, with over 10,000 items available I just can't put every one of them into the on-line shop...always give me a ring on 03 9444-8025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 NZ Savannahs I did a search on your shop and a search for wind or windsock didn't bring anything up on the "all categories" I couldn't find the windsock in the shop search either. Hi 80KtsThanks for the lead on the windsocks also I was going through the savannah threads looking for info about fuel tanks and came across one that a NZ guys says there are at least 7 Savannahs in NZ he doesn't say where they are but maybe its worth a PM to him to find out. There are indeed 7 Savs on the NZ CAA's aircraft register: ZK-DJB was first registered in 2004 and is located in Auckland ZK-JMD was first registered in 2005 and is located in Invercargill (bottom of the South Island) ZK-JNV was first registered in 2008 and is located in Wanganui ZK-SAH was first registered in 2007 and is located in Gisborne ZK-SAV was first registered in 2004 and is located in Ashburton ZK-WLH was first registered in 2006 and is located in Balfour ZK-WTR was first registered in 2006 and is also located in Invercargill I suspect, due to their ages, that none of these are XLs. Many of them may not even be VGs. All of these planes are many hundreds of kilometres away from where I live. [by way of comparison, there are 16 Zenith CH-701s on the register] What I am really interested in is how many constructors in Enzed are putting Savannahs together at the moment? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 HI 80Kts Might be worth it to drop the importer here a email Tom Abel he is the agent for Aus and also NZ I think he maybe able to tell you if he has sold any to NZ in the last 2 years or so and where they went to. I think it would be a wild old ride to be flying one out of Invercargil it gets pretty wild and wooley down there I think there would be a lot of rearward flying there :) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Managed to get some work done this weekend. I am up to doing the fuel tanks and most I have talked to tell me its the other worst job on the whole aircraft and I must say it is. I started to cut out the second tank area and it was proving very tedious then I had a brainwave I bought some years ago a knibbler attachment for a drill. . I used that today and it was magic just attached it to my battery drill and it was excellent and easy. Put the other main outlet fittings into the rest of the tanks and started to get everything sorted with the right wing tanks. I am having both filler caps close together so marked out where the hole needed to be and triple checked my measurements got out the 70mm hole saw and went for it. It came out pretty well. My plan is not to mount everything permanent until I have everything cut and ready especially for the longer feed pipes from the extra tanks. I needed to mount up the tanks to see where I need to drill holes in the ribs and run the 1/4 inch aluminium tube from the outer tank to where the sight gauges will be, I will have 4 sight gauges for all 4 tanks There will need to be some tricky bends done but it should be ok. The two bars that go across the bottom of the tanks to hold them in seem to be pretty tight and the top of the tanks do press hard on the top skin of the wing but doesnt seem to be too much distortion of the top skin. There is a lot of work fitting the tanks I expected to get more done on them this weekend but slowly slowly catchy monkey I suppose. Will be away next weekend up at the property again and got a lot of jobs on this week so wont get back to the Sav for about another 2 weeks :( Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Oh I forgot...the bloody tips I have includes 2 pics in the previous post one of the root rib and the other of the distortion in the tip nose skin which is the reason it is so hard to do the fibreglass tips. I have taken a cardboard template of the rib its easiest done at the root rib. I will cutout a 10mm wood template of the outside shape the skin side basically then cut out the inside so it will sort of look like a horseshoe then I will fit the template into the nose skin area at the tip which will form the skin to the shape it should be this will make it easier to fit the tip cover in. When its in I can stick my hand in through the hole in the mainspar out at the tip and fold the template around so it releases and I should be able to pull it out through the hole in the spar at the tip then I will fit the main wingtip cover sheet...hopefully this will work will let you know and take some more pics Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwells Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Hi Mark, looks like a neat job on the fuel tanks. At least I've an idea how they go now. I've put together the stabilizer, elevator and trim tab over the last coulpe of days, main problem is the maual shows p[arts of three different sytems. Short trim tab, long trim tab and long trim tab with electrical opperation. Once I sorted out which system I had and which "sketches" were relavent it all went together OK.[ATTACH]12362.vB[/ATTACH] Keep up the good work Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Hi Ian The tail feathers go together really quickly and so do the wings really. Not sure if you have done the fin yet but there will be a small packet of countersunk 3/32 rivets for the bottom of the fin post you must make sure they are flush its in the manual its very ambiguious in the manual they don't tell you the rivets are there you will see some pics on this thread about it, it caught me and had me running around for a while until Steve told me about them I didn't see the electrical cable coming out of the stab did you put it in for the trim servo?...I forgot mine but at least I found that before I had gotten too far and I put it in. One thing with the manual I am not sure if you noticed is that after the main pages that show construction there is another parts list and drawings that are for the XL version they are the next section about 20mm behind the first 100 plus pages just before the divider in the manual. These are for your model so you have to sort of jump between the 2 sections to decipher the correct parts. I will get all the tank plumbing bent and ready and take some more pics before I complete the tank section and sikaflex it all in. Reg Brost has sent me about 150 rivnuts and SS screws for the tank cover sheets they should be here this week that will be a tedious job drilling the holes and installing those but I think its much better to be able to unscrew the slower skin tank covers that to rivet the covers. This week I am going to get this former made to try out the tip idea to see if it makes it easier to fit the FRP tip in. Peter a prospective builder/buyer of a Sav came over for a look at mine on saturday and we were discussing it he came up with the idea and it sounds pheasable so I will give it a squirt and see how or if it works. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwells Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Hi Mark, I did put in the wires for the servo, but with so much false information and sketches of things that arn't correct it makes my very nervous when riviting the skins on, just in case something has been forgoten. It would be a hell of a job to remove a full skin! I also ended up with a few left over parts! normaly not a good sign but I think all is good. RE rivnuts. Ihave been advised that rivnuts have a tendency to seize up avter several years of use, then they start to turn inside the skin making removal VERY dificult. Nutplates have been sugested as a much better system???? I now have two folders for the big blue book, one for part one, one for part two so I can look at both versions at the same time! regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Hi ian I have done the same with the manual it makes life easier the other issue is finding all the parts in all the boxes :). Reg tells me to make sure you put loctite the red stuff on each rivnut when you install it this should stop it from turning also, I will just wipe a thin smear of vaseline on the SS screws when I install them this will stop that and of course give them another smear when the covers come off. The ribs are not that wide and you have to take the holes out to 3/16 anyway to put the rivnuts in. I am lucky because I have a few guys locally that are building or have built Savs so I get to ask these questions and often look at them. Please ask anything if you have any doubts at all or even just for clarification you dont want to make any mistakes if possible Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 HI 80KtsI think it would be a wild old ride to be flying one out of Invercargil it gets pretty wild and wooley down there I think there would be a lot of rearward flying there :) Mark Hi Mark (@ Kyle Comms-new name, I see!) It's interesting to note that Southern Wings, a flight school in Invercargill, has many students doing PPL, CPL and the PPL (H) course. I'm sure that the graduates would not be afraid of any crosswind at all. HI 80KtsMight be worth it to drop the importer here a email Tom Abel he is the agent for Aus and also NZ I think he maybe able to tell you if he has sold any to NZ in the last 2 years or so and where they went to. Mark Do you happen to have Tom's contact details at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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