Another NEW Savannah XL on its way

[dan tonner]

Hello Tom;

 

I was pleased to get your reply and will await Mark's and Roger's assessment next week. What are the first six numbers stamped on your original ignition modules?

 

With respect to the selling price, this will have to be your call: any offer I made would be unduly influenced by "...the less it costs, the better.."

 

Best regards, fly safely,

 

Canada Dan

 

 

[rankamateur]

any offer I made would be unduly influenced by "...the less it costs, the better.."

That is very human of you Dan!

 

 

[rotax618]

 

These are the ignition parts. Consists of two 4 pin modules and trigger coils, two ignition coils, tachometer pickup.

 

 

 

[rotax618]

The number on the side of my modules is, 966 721 992424.

 

Thy may not suit your engine.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Did some more testing yesterday. Installed the module onto Rogers engine unpotted so we can get some very accurate timing measurements for the new test jig for testing old and new units. Hooking up the oscillosope while the engine was running and in the bright and very hot sun yesterday was a trick. Did the touch test of all the critical components after the engine had been running and all are as cool as cucumbers which is what we have been aiming for. The necessary component adjustments and replacements have been very successful

 

 

 

 

[IBob]

Following this with great interest, Mark....and I don't even own an engine yet...)

 

Component heating is an interesting thing and I've had a couple of run-ins with it over the years. First was with Opto22 SSRs in the 80's. They were a potted device, and Opto altered the design, after which they gradually got hotter over several hours until they ran away, obliging us to put fan cooling into an existing closed design, then alter the design to fit our own SSRs.

 

Since then I have been very wary of component overheat problems, particularly in potted or totally enclosed setups, which in my view often run at or near the limit.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Bob

 

Power electronics is a very interesting game. The last 3 years or so I have been working for my mate. We make transformers from 100va up to 500kva also rectifiers up to 8000 amps so we are talking some pretty large power devices also temperature rises that are very important for the long term operation. Infact our rectifiers are on the new wharves in Christchurch also on pretty much every coal and loading wharf in Australia including up to wharf 13 here in Brisbane. Mainly all used for cathodic protection of wharves, bridges, pipelines,aircon plants and tanks on buildings etc.

 

Temperature rating and loading of components are extremely important and not a lot of designers seem to take notice of this.

 

The business has now taken a different direction and we pretty much do not do this anymore we design and OEM salt water pool chlorinators and other add ons for this industry. My role is design and development of all the electronics and everything I have learned over the 30 odd years of doing all this is put into these designs and also these ignition units. Design practices are the same where it is 8000 amps or 0.5 or a amp

 

Mark

 

 

[IBob]

Yep, I certainly realise you're onto all this, Mark, and wasn't questioning that.

 

And i would imagine a large number of Rotax owners are also watching your progress with very great interest!

 

 

[dan tonner]

The number on the side of my modules is, 966 721 992424.Thy may not suit your engine.

Hi Tom;

 

Thanks for this;

 

The Rotax Parts Catalogue lists four different modules which are used on the 912 and 914 series of engines and 966 721 is not on the list at all. What are included are 966 359; 966 724; 966 728 and 966 729. (These numbers appear with 965 446; 965 440; 965 442; and 965 444, respectively in the updated 2015 Parts Catalogue.)

 

My modules (pictured in post 1117 on page 56 of this thread) are labelled 966 359 (new number 965 446 in the updated Rotax Parts Catalogue).

 

In the Catalogue, only 966 359 and 966 724 use the 4-pin connectors.

 

I don't know why 966 721 does not appear in the old or the updated catalogues and I also don't know if the 966 724 (the only other 4-pin version) can be rewired to match what I have. I do know that my generator coil, all 5 trigger coils and the four spark plug coils are working fine. (My engine starts right up and runs smoothly when the "good" module is fully connected to either of the redundant ignition sets - the "bad" module does not even generate a cough when it is connected.)

 

I'm still investigating the possibilities....and may still want to talk to you about your set (or part of it?)

 

(Jump in anytime Mark....: - )

 

'Best; fly safely,

 

Dan

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Dan

 

I have had nothing to do with the 4 wire units at all. I spoke to Roger my other partner in crime and he knows them quite well. He seems to think our new module which is the 6 wire one of course can be used no problem with your older system. He will confirm later this week as he is sure he has some wiring info on it somewhere.

 

What I might do if we can confirm this and get the wiring sorted I might make one up as a 4 wire and possibly send it over to you with the flap brackets and you can be a test guiniea pig if you want as I dont know anyone with a current 4 wire setup here.

 

The sheet for the flap brackets I dropped off to the laser cutters on friday they said about a week so then I have to setup the CNC folder here at work and bend them all.

 

Mark

 

 

[rotax618]

I will take my old 4 pin modules up to Roger next weekend, he may be able to work a conversion for the system to the new modules.

 

 

[dan tonner]

Hi DanI have had nothing to do with the 4 wire units at all. I spoke to Roger my other partner in crime and he knows them quite well. He seems to think our new module which is the 6 wire one of course can be used no problem with your older system. He will confirm later this week as he is sure he has some wiring info on it somewhere.

What I might do if we can confirm this and get the wiring sorted I might make one up as a 4 wire and possibly send it over to you with the flap brackets and you can be a test guiniea pig if you want as I dont know anyone with a current 4 wire setup here.

 

The sheet for the flap brackets I dropped off to the laser cutters on friday they said about a week so then I have to setup the CNC folder here at work and bend them all.

 

Mark

Thanks Mark;

Sounds like a plan......

 

All the best, fly safely,

 

Dan

 

 

[dan tonner]

I will take my old 4 pin modules up to Roger next weekend, he may be able to work a conversion for the system to the new modules.

I will be keen to hear what Roger has to say......

I didn't see any way to open the module "pot" to see how it is wired without destroying the contents but I do know the newer modules control the soft start system on the newer engines. Mine doesn't have that feature. Somehow the electronics in the newer modules must determine how long the ignition spark stays delayed (one side or both sides?) then switch the signal to run in the advanced timing mode after startup. All this assumes - correctly or incorrectly - that the ignition timing stays fully advanced after startup - quite a different design from an automotive setup ..... I also believe part of the reason Rotax redesigned the modules was to reduce vibration breakage in these wires by stabilizing the connectors more securely.

 

It would be nice to be working from schematics for the four (or more?) different modules.

 

All the best,

 

Fly safely,

 

Dan

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Dan

 

Tom bought his 4 wire system up this weekend and Roger went over it and hooked it all up to the test unit. It is basically the same as the 6 wire. If you want when I send you the flap brackets which the laser guys should be finishing today or tomorrow I will send you a unit setup as a 4 wire so you can run the engine with it and do some testing. Especially in your harsh conditions over there. We do not have anything like that at all here. Ours is too much heat and not enough cold

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Dan send me your email please to [email protected]

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Picked up the flap brackets from the laser cutter today. Just have to setup the CNC folder. Will try to get that done tomorrow....my last day of work for the week otherwise it will be the following week

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

All bent this morning. Please email me with your address for those that want them [email protected]

 

There are only about 4 or 5 sets left from this first batch

 

 

 

[JimG]

Neat work, Mark.

 

cheers

 

Jim G

 

 

[eightyknots]

All bent this morning. Please email me with your address for those that want them [email protected]There are only about 4 or 5 sets left from this first batch

 

[ATTACH=full]46973[/ATTACH]

Hi Mark, I am flying to Australia to pick one up on the morning of the 10th December.

 

Two sets please: one for myself and one for Forum member iBob.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Hi Mark, I am flying to Australia to pick one up on the morning of the 10th December.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get them posted?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Actually I think you will be picking up 4 sets..1 set for you and 3 sets for others :)

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Looks like you are the "Flap bracket mule" Hank

 

 

[eightyknots]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get them posted?

Haha, Marty, I am going anyway to catch up with my family in Northern NSW and Sydney. My son lives in Grafton so I am going via BNE.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have to check that they fit yet.....will be going down tomorrow morning to see. The Girlfriend is out of action at the moment ...got another bloody fuel leak. The pilot inner side tank ..they main offender. I fixed it 3 years ago but has started again so with some help from Danny Leach the tank has now been modified on the inside to take the curve away and I have just finished turning up a new fitting with Viton Orings in the fitting base and in the fitting locking nut. So while she is out of action I will fit the new brackets to make sure all is well before sending them out. I dont expect any issues but always best to check first. I am just machining 2 flats on the nut with the Oring now so will post some pics of the new fitting a bit later

 

 

[eightyknots]

I have to check that they fit yet.....will be going down tomorrow morning to see. The Girlfriend is out of action at the moment ...got another bloody fuel leak. The pilot inner side tank ..they main offender. I fixed it 3 years ago but has started again so with some help fromDanny Leach the tank has now been modified on the inside to take the curve away and I have just finished turning up a new fitting with Viton Orings in the fitting base and in the fitting locking nut. So while she is out of action I will fit the new brackets to make sure all is well before sending them out. I dont expect any issues but always best to check first. I am just machining 2 flats on the nut with the Oring now so will post some pics of the new fitting a bit later

Is this a fault with the ICP tanks? ...a weakness perhaps?