Another NEW Savannah XL on its way

[eightyknots]

That side panel swap sounds like a good idea Steve!

 

 

[rankamateur]

That side panel swap sounds like a good idea Steve!

It worked well for a painted fuselage, I wouldn't do it if I was planning to polish my skins ! There are little clamp marks, like fingernail clippings, along the underside of the sheets where the CNC machines clamp the sheets and these become the outside once the sheets are swapped. The primer and paint make them quite easy to miss but they would be very obvious on a polished surface.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Update on the Rotax ignition modules.

 

Have a few out there now and all seem to be working very well. Been trying to get the production of them faster and easier as it just is taking way too much time. I have redone the layout of the pcb to make it easier to gets the boards machine assembled by one of our suppliers we use at work. I have asked them if they will do small production runs and they said no problems and my boss came up with a good idea about making a mold from silicone and potting them completely rather than 3D printing a box. I used my CNC machine to make the plug out of aluminium then we made the mold box and tried it out. It actually works very well. I did a test run for a couple using the epoxy we use at work which has a dielectric of 28,000 volts per mm and they came out great. Needs a bit of refining but its certainly doable. I would prefer to have a box made but to get a die made the cost is US$3000 so its out of the ball park. Although I had a call from a mate yesterday there is a guy who may make the die for me at no cost...well just so happens he flys as well and needs some modules so I am well prepared to grease the right palms with boards as required :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lyndon]

Keep up the good work. Well done.

 

Lyndon

 

 

[IBob]

That's really impressive...and a huge service to the flying community if you can offer this alternative.

 

For ground testing only, of course........)

 

 

[eightyknots]

That's really impressive...and a huge service to the flying community if you can offer this alternative.For ground testing only, of course........)

How is all the "in-field ground testing" going?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I cant keep up with producing the "test modules" :) There is over 50 hours on one of the original test modules so far the others are slowly getting up there, actually there are 3 pairs over in NZ now and Peter's seem to be working fine too...well he flys across the big gap bet the two island with them :) I am doing a lot here as well the biggest pain is there are 3 different types which require 3 different wiring and plug setups. The one board works fine for them all it is just I have to get the people to take pictures of their plugs as most dont know what is what with them. The originals have a 4 wire plug and the rest are fly leads with bullet connectors then you have the ones with a 4 wire and a 6 wire plug and 1 flylead with a bullet then the have the later ones that have 2 of 6way connectors.

 

I am in the process of getting the boards produced by the company that do our board assembly here for work they are very good so the time part will be mostly taken care of all I have to do when I get them is fit the 4 major semiconductors and heatsinks, make up the wiring harnesses and plugs then pot them in epoxy then test them again but currently hand assembling all the components on the boards was way too time consuming. I do need to get them made in min of 100 at a time so its a fair cash layout to get it done but from the interest I have in them it should be fine.

 

Mark

 

 

[eightyknots]

I cant keep up with producing the "test modules" :) There is over 50 hours on one of the original test modules so far the others are slowly getting up there, actually there are 3 pairs over in NZ now and Peter's seem to be working fine too...well he flys across the big gap bet the two island with them :) I am doing a lot here as well the biggest pain is there are 3 different types which require 3 different wiring and plug setups. The one board works fine for them all it is just I have to get the people to take pictures of their plugs as most dont know what is what with them. The originals have a 4 wire plug and the rest are fly leads with bullet connectors then you have the ones with a 4 wire and a 6 wire plug and 1 flylead with a bullet then the have the later ones that have 2 of 6way connectors.I am in the process of getting the boards produced by the company that do our board assembly here for work they are very good so the time part will be mostly taken care of all I have to do when I get them is fit the 4 major semiconductors and heatsinks, make up the wiring harnesses and plugs then pot them in epoxy then test them again but currently hand assembling all the components on the boards was way too time consuming. I do need to get them made in min of 100 at a time so its a fair cash layout to get it done but from the interest I have in them it should be fine.

 

Mark

[eightyknots]

It is good to hear that all this testing is so successful. We'll done Mark.

[IBob]

I cant keep up with producing the "test modules" :) There is over 50 hours on one of the original test modules so far the others are slowly getting up there, actually there are 3 pairs over in NZ now and Peter's seem to be working fine too...well he flys across the big gap bet the two island with them :) I am doing a lot here as well the biggest pain is there are 3 different types which require 3 different wiring and plug setups. The one board works fine for them all it is just I have to get the people to take pictures of their plugs as most dont know what is what with them. The originals have a 4 wire plug and the rest are fly leads with bullet connectors then you have the ones with a 4 wire and a 6 wire plug and 1 flylead with a bullet then the have the later ones that have 2 of 6way connectors.I am in the process of getting the boards produced by the company that do our board assembly here for work they are very good so the time part will be mostly taken care of all I have to do when I get them is fit the 4 major semiconductors and heatsinks, make up the wiring harnesses and plugs then pot them in epoxy then test them again but currently hand assembling all the components on the boards was way too time consuming. I do need to get them made in min of 100 at a time so its a fair cash layout to get it done but from the interest I have in them it should be fine.

 

Mark

Hmmmm.............sounds like you could do with technically capable agent/s (nudge, nudge)...........)

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

wink wink

 

 

[MajorTom]

I still have to get my licence yet anyway so got a lot to do :)

Well, some older post of you, but men: you are as crasy as Richard and I am. Building a plane without having a license.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Tom

 

I am not sure what your licencing conditions are there but there was a method in my madness. Back in the mid 1980's I had a glider pilots licence and in the mid 1990;s I was doing my PPL (GA Licence) but got diagnosed with diabeties so was not allowed a GA licence. I decided eventually when I found out about a sports pilots licence then I could fly legally but in ultralight style aircraft. So I did research and had a few joyflights and decided on the savannah. I bought the kit and started building while I did my licence training with a instructor and a factory built aircraft. I had my sav ready to fly just after going solo so that then allowed me to fly my own aircraft. The only issue was as it was newly built I could fly no more than 25nm from the airfield and only 1 person so I had to do this for 25 hrs. This then allowed me to have 2 persons on board so my instructor then did the rest of my training in my own aircraft which of course I had now had 25 hrs experience flying. I then needed to get my cross country endorsement to allow me to go more than 25nm away from my point of origin. I did all my dual cross country nav training and cross country solo in my aircraft. I had pretty much timed it all very well. So I save a lot of money not having to hire the aircraft and the instructor I just needed to pay for the instructor.

 

 

[MajorTom]

Wow, what a story! I am very impressed.

 

I often heard UL flying is much more fun then PPL.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Wow, what a story! I am very impressed.I often heard UL flying is much more fun then PPL.

I believe it is! And, for that reason, I am building an "ultralight" Savannah.

 

Here in New Zealand, up-to-600-kg aircraft are known as "microlights" and that is what my Savannah will be registered as when it is complete.

 

 

[eightyknots]

In readiness for my build, I have been reviewing some of the Savannah build threads in Recreational Flying.

 

Much to Mark Kyle's credit -and all the fantastic contributors to this thread,

 

this thread has been viewed 104,278 times!

 

Wow!!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well an update on this forum where the ignition modules are.

 

I have made about 50 modules and they are going really well. I have made quite a few changes since the first posts on this. I now have injection molded glass filled nylon boxes. I have settled on the wire sizes after some trial and error and testing. The epoxy I use to fill the boxes we use at work it is 28,000 volts per mm insulation and sets as solid as a rock to hold everything. Some modules out there now have around 80 to 100 hours of operation. The test box that I use is set for 5000 rpm but I want to be able to test the units that I make and also test original modules to see if they have any faults. I can really only check for go no go with the electronic test box version. I can not test from 0 rpm right up through the full range of RPM.

 

Danny and I bought a broken 912ULS for parts and I have used the gearbox mainshaft from it for the Mabel rebuild. I had a brainwave so I have removed the alternator and housing from this engine it has all the original pickup coils and main coils so I am going to simulate a complete working firing system on a genuine Rotax test bed. I have been working on it this past week or two. Jimbo came over last weekend with the special puller so we could get the alternator off the crankshaft and once that was done then I made up a quick frame to mount the unit on. I got some pillowblock bearings with 30mm bearings and have made up a complete drive shaft that emulated the engine crankshaft. The alternator end has a bronze bush in it and a taper that holds the stator on. I turned the shaft up from a 40mm steel bar with the section on it for the taper and the bearing surface for the 32mm housing bush and tapped the 16mm hole in the end which is about 45mm deep...that was a slow exercise by hand. I mounted the pillowblocks and have lined it all up so it spins freely. Once the stator is fitted though its incredible how much harder it is to turn the shaft with the magnets in use. I reckon it drags about 5 to 10hp from the engine it so hard with the magnet pulses. I have used a pedastil drill motor and the pulley from the drill press to drive it all. Not sure if I will have enough torque to drive it though so I may need to use toothed timing belts and pulleys also maybe a larger motor. I will know hopefully when I get it fired up maybe this weekend. The motor does 1420rpm so I need a 4/1 reduction to get the shaft up to normal engine cruise speed. Hopefully it will work. Anyway some pics of the test bed so far...it may well change yet.

 

It will have a digital tacho I will make which monitors the shaft speed also obviously a speed control also maybe some fixed speed positions as I will make a speed controller for the drive motor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimG]

Seriously good work there Mark , I'll be over to check it out once you have it up and running .

 

cheers

 

Jim G

 

 

[eightyknots]

Well an update on this forum where the ignition modules are.I have made about 50 modules and they are going really well. I have made quite a few changes since the first posts on this. I now have injection molded glass filled nylon boxes. I have settled on the wire sizes after some trial and error and testing. The epoxy I use to fill the boxes we use at work it is 28,000 volts per mm insulation and sets as solid as a rock to hold everything. Some modules out there now have around 80 to 100 hours of operation. The test box that I use is set for 5000 rpm but I want to be able to test the units that I make and also test original modules to see if they have any faults. I can really only check for go no go with the electronic test box version. I can not test from 0 rpm right up through the full range of RPM.

 

Danny and I bought a broken 912ULS for parts and I have used the gearbox mainshaft from it for the Mabel rebuild. I had a brainwave so I have removed the alternator and housing from this engine it has all the original pickup coils and main coils so I am going to simulate a complete working firing system on a genuine Rotax test bed. I have been working on it this past week or two. Jimbo came over last weekend with the special puller so we could get the alternator off the crankshaft and once that was done then I made up a quick frame to mount the unit on. I got some pillowblock bearings with 30mm bearings and have made up a complete drive shaft that emulated the engine crankshaft. The alternator end has a bronze bush in it and a taper that holds the stator on. I turned the shaft up from a 40mm steel bar with the section on it for the taper and the bearing surface for the 32mm housing bush and tapped the 16mm hole in the end which is about 45mm deep...that was a slow exercise by hand. I mounted the pillowblocks and have lined it all up so it spins freely. Once the stator is fitted though its incredible how much harder it is to turn the shaft with the magnets in use. I reckon it drags about 5 to 10hp from the engine it so hard with the magnet pulses. I have used a pedastil drill motor and the pulley from the drill press to drive it all. Not sure if I will have enough torque to drive it though so I may need to use toothed timing belts and pulleys also maybe a larger motor. I will know hopefully when I get it fired up maybe this weekend. The motor does 1420rpm so I need a 4/1 reduction to get the shaft up to normal engine cruise speed. Hopefully it will work. Anyway some pics of the test bed so far...it may well change yet.

 

It will have a digital tacho I will make which monitors the shaft speed also obviously a speed control also maybe some fixed speed positions as I will make a speed controller for the drive motor[ATTACH=full]53593[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53594[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53600[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53599[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53595[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53596[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53597[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]53598[/ATTACH]

All I an say is "Wow - what dedication"

 

 

[IBob]

This is great stuff. And could pave the way for changing the crude advance/retard setup.....maybe.......)

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

This is great stuff. And could pave the way for changing the crude advance/retard setup.....maybe.......)

Once I have perfectly emulated system then certainly its a real possibility. The current circuit is overcomplex by a factor to 10. It could be made much simpler and far better

 

 

[IBob]

The current (old) circuit, as I understand it, leaps from fully retarded to fully advanced depending on the trigger coil signal shape/amplitude...which depends on speed and gap. Premature switching of this would account for some of the horrible non-starting behaviours, with possible associated clutch damage. The current way round this seems to be to do everything you can to ensure fast starting turnover.

 

As I understand it, the newer setup tries to get round this by holding fully retarded for a set period. Probably some sort of improvement, but gives gnarly rough running until the switch occurs.

 

I wonder why they are so afraid of progressive spark advance? Simplicity and reliability???

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Your absolutely right. My engine with the later modules runs like a hairy goat for the first 5 or 8 seconds until the retard dops out. The CDI side is over complex in the old modules. I have not been able to procure a dead "newer" style module from all the worldwide searching I have done to have a look at the difference. They have a delay circuit in there done by electronics. The add on softstart boxes that used to be available for the older style modules was just done with relays

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

It has come to my attention thanks to Reg Brost and Danny Leach that a lot of the earlier Savannah kits have some confusion over the seat belt mounts. Danny and I have been talking about it on our rebuilds for a month or so and when I was in NZ I saw IBob's build and noticed a different inner seat belt bracket. So a bit of research and advice from Reg I checked mine this morning and also another XL build at my airfield and both he and I and also Dannys VG and another that called in today for a chat at the hangar were done wrong. This will only apply probably for earlier versions of the manuals.

 

The outer seat belt bracket on the side rail should have bolts at the top and bottom and 2 rivets in the middle. The manual shows the drawing correct BUT it shows the bracket with 4 rivets in it. Mabel and Danny's S rebuild only have 4 rivets and no bolts. Make sure the top and bottom attachment holes have bolts in them.

 

The inner attachments the strap is supposed to be bolted THROUGH the pyramid tunnel side. Mine are not. Again the drawing in both manuals I have is correct but the picture is NOT

 

Hopefully the pictures will tell the story

 

 

You can see in this picture above the hole at the top...it should have a hole behind it into the tunnel side and the bolt for the attachment should be on the inside of the tunnel. This picture is of Mabel's one and my XL was also done like this...the manual does not make this clear at all.

 

 

This is the outside one and the top and bottom rivets should actually be bolts NOT rivets

 

Another thing is the seat belts them selves should be crossed over. Meaning that the pilots sealt belt at the tunnel side should be attached to the pax side and visa versa...this makes better sense as the pull direction will be far better when needed. I do not have mine crossed over but will change that as well

 

 

This is the later style bracket from IBobs build...you can see it is attached to the UC channel and also bolted to the control tunnel...this is much stronger than our original designs...a much better idea

 

 

[Marty_d]

The 701 seatbelt mounts have no bolts (I know because I riveted them not long ago!)

 

I know it's a different aircraft, but so much is almost exactly the same. Maybe Savannah started off with only rivets and decided to add a bolt?

 

One addition to the 701 original plan is to add a 0.040" plate behind the pyramid tunnel wall and rivet A5 through the seatbelt mount, wall and plate. This is because they found some mounts pulling off the tunnel wall in crashes.