Another NEW Savannah XL on its way

[Kyle Communications]

Hi All

 

progress is being made :). There is a lot of work and riveting for the rear section of the fuselage I am surprised how long it has taken. There must be 2000 rivets in that section. Thats now done and now I am into fitting the cabin section. This is going together quite well so far. I have put the battery in the new position I was toying with the idea of placing it down the back in the original position as there has been some discussion about the current VGXL being a bit nose heavy. I rang Bill Grieve and asked him about his factory built one as he has done a couple of weight and balance on his and after chatting to him I will go with the battery in the new position. His came out in the mid range and needs his tie down kit in the back compartment where thee battery used to be to keep the sav flying without any stick pressure when he is fully loaded. I thought with the extended engine position and the prop extension the balance would have been a bit more forward but apparently not so its behind the seats. I have been doing an hour or two most nights and progress is nice and steady.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi All

 

Further progress over the last week or so. It certainly helps doing 1 to 2 hrs a night on speeding up the build. Most time is spent really getting the next set of parts ready. Cleaning,deburring and painting the black goop on and waiting for it to dry..the rest of the time is deciphering the manual :). Have fitted the joystick and control rod also made the flaperon mixer and belcranks. I found it easier to do this from the front rather than do it through the hole in the bottom...I am not a small guy so easier for me not to spend too much time in that opening. Cant work on it this weekend as going out to Dalby for a big model aircraft fly-in its once a year..Tommo should know where it is its on the Cecil Plains Road

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

...the rest of the time is deciphering the manual :)

Oh dear!

What do you do in those situations??

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The manual is hard work really it could be done so much better...just have to read it plenty of times and get the parts then lay them out and see where they all fit. Some of the drawings are very good and are self explanitory but others are not good and you have to work things out. But I have to say I am enjoying building the sav. Its really a fullfilling exercise some bits are very boring but most are great. I will hopefully order the motor soon as it can take 10 weeks or so to get it and hopefully by then I will be ready for it. A couple more weeks and it should be almost completed to the point where I will be finishing off all the little jobs then it will be onto cleaning it all down and preparing to paint everything. By the time that is done the engine should be here and it can be fitted up and the rest finished. Just got to come up with the 20 grand for the motor and prop :)

 

Mark

 

 

[pete8862]

Hi Mark,

 

You have done heaps since I saw it, it looks great.I would like to drop out again when I get a spare weekend that is.

 

Pete

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi pete

 

I am away to dalby this weekend then up my farm the next weekend but should be home during the weeks...its not at the same place you went to..well the wings and other gear are still there but I am building the fuselage at my home at Burpengary so come around here just ring me or PM and I can give you the address if you dont know it already... Just got the front floor in tonight and the front sides up to the firewall will go on tomorrow night. Construction is very fast now it is here. I work 1 to 2 hrs a night and 3 hrs or so on the weekends when I am here.

 

Mark

 

 

[ianwells]

Hi Mark

 

You seem to be cracking along now that you can do a bit each day, before you know it you'll be finished!!!

 

I've just completed the 25 hr test flight period in Cab Sav. The only problems in that time have been three broken exhaust springs, I did have a vibration from the front wheel after take off as it continues to rotate for some time. This was fixed easily with a few balencing weights from a bike shop.

 

So now I'm set for the first trip away to Old Station next weekend. The better half will have a more comfotable flight than the trip to Monto last year in the back seat of the driffter, The cabin heat really does work!!!!

 

Keep up the good work and I'll cxatch you in the air soon.

 

Regards

 

ian

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Ian

 

Yes real progress is being made now. infact I will hopefully order the engine in the next week or two. It takes 10 to 12 weeks I am told just got to get some bucks aside for it thats the hard part. I will hopefully get most of the plane finished and painted by the time the engine arrives so all things going well it will be flying in september of october this year. I still have to get my licence yet anyway so got a lot to do :) I have been away this weekend so no further work since thursday night but here is the latest up to date pics

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

Racing along, Mark! Every day is a step closer to:

 

 

[Guest nunans]

please forgive the newby question but what's the black stuff you are using on the mating surfaces before you rivet?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Nunans

 

It is basically like a etch primer. You put it on where any 2 faces of the aluminium touch it stops corrosion between mating surfaces.

 

Mark

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I was away for the weekend just over a week ago so not much done but earlier this week and this weekend have been doing a lot of the smaller fiddly jobs. Its great to finally see boxes of bits being slowly dwindled down. The firewall is in and the engine mount supports are in the floor has been rivetted and the rudder pedals done, I have selected the "advanced" position as I am 188cm tall and wanted the pedals a bit further away. Its surprising how much time is taken up doing these small jobs and just finishing off the bits and pieces. Have struck a couple of things. One mistake was when I built the stab and elevator its was quite a long time ago now about 10 months or so and of course now I am fully aware of how the manual is constructed and you make mistakes along the way and have to drill out some rivets and correct what you misinterperted in the manual or they just didn't tell you in the manual and you find out the hard way. Example is because there are 3 different versions of the trim on the elevator I am sure it didn't tell you that one hinge point is longer than the other and as I did it over a day or two a week or so apart I put the wrong one in the wrong side. There is one hinge that requires the bellcrank for the trim to me mounted on it in the elevator. of course I had the smaller one on the wrong side so had to open up the elevator and remove both hinges and then re- rivet the structure back..only took about 15 mins but is just a crap off. Also there are a few places you need to install countersunk rivets...they dont tell you about these ones in the manual...well not that I have found anyway. I have put a couple of pics in to show. On the crossmember on the firewall just at the top you need to put 3 countersunks there for the top plate for the nosewheel strut also the firewall strengthener for the bottom of the engine mount and also under the front for the main bolt for the bottom of the engine mounts a countersunk will need to got there as well.

 

I will start to do some painting now of the firewall and internal floor of the cabin at the front. Have sussed out where I can get all the paint as per Maj Millards system which is the wattyl etch prime and undercoat and the top coat is Protek paint. I like the idea of sealing off the firewall from the cabin so Reg Brost has made some entry exit alu pieces for the throttle and nosewheel steering rods and supplies some silicone boots that go over them then he seals it off with a heat resistant silicone sealer he also seals off the firewall to the skins with it. You get it from BSC motion technology I got that on the weekend so will do the painting then seal the areas off will take some pics when I get them done...thats this weeks job to make the pieces out of scrap alu and do the painting. I wont be around this weekend its a long weekend so going up the farm to do some more work and mow the strips as I may go flying again in the next couple of weeks and would love to fly up there and do some landings etc

 

Ok thats all for now

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have a question for previous or current XL builders that maybe cruising this thread. The manual doesnt explain this very well. The pivots for the elevator. Supplied are 2 brass bushes the same size and another that is longer. The manual says both short ones are at either end and the long one is in the middle. But this does not compute when you go to fit them. To me the long bush should go on the side that has the trim tab and belcrank this leaves 1 smaller bush left for the middle section. The problem is the small bush does not fit through the alu angle extrusion used for the attachment off the stab. The longer bush goes through nicely but the smaller bush is just slightly larger. So you can see my predicament. I rang Steve yesterday to find out how he did his but he hasnt got to attaching the elevator yet. Maybe Ian can tell me...either that or I am reading the italio english wrong :(...If I fit the large bush to the middle pivot the bolt they specify isnt long enough also the short one is not long enough to fit the belcrank to for the trim

 

Mark

 

Also cant seem to find any washers for the aileron/flaperon ball link rods. Can anyone remember if they were supplied separately maybe with the rods as I can not seem to find them at all....been chasing around to find some locally they are AN960-5...no one locally I can find has them :(

 

 

[eightyknots]

Hi Mark,

 

I hope you get an answer to your questions about the bushes and washers soon. Perhaps Reg Brost can help (assuming you bought the kit through Aerokits).

 

I was in Brisbane earlier this year looking at one of his factory built Savannah S planes. I took a number of photos including the roof 'skylight' window which is not found in the only other Savannah I have ever seen, the Savannah VG. While I was there, he took a number of calls from kit builders who were stuck (see picture). "It's all part of the service I provide" he said.

 

 

I would still like to look at a Savannah XL one of these days. There aren't any in Enzed where I live at the moment.

 

I have a question for you: are you keeping a track of the hours you have spent in constructing the XL? If so, how many hours has it been so far?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I havent been keeping a direct log because its been pretty disjointed but wings tail feather and flaperons around 40 hours. The fuselage so far around 50 to 60 hours so a total so far would be around 110 to 120 hrs. I havent been rushing it either. I got to say I love building it and am not tired of it at all. In fact after I get this one flying for a while I will buy another one and build it why I am flying the original one then sell it when the other one is ready to fly. The reason is two fold...The main one is its just a great project to do and the second one is now I know how to do it I am sure I can do it even better. Not by modifying the design or anything like that I just know I can do a better job on the finsh. Dont get me wrong I am happy now with everything I have done on it but the next one I would do it much better. lets face it really its a 650 part 14,000 rivet mechano set but I would like to get a better finish than standard on areas of fit and the skins on the flaperons and wings etc. if you look at most savannahs they all have the same little indents everywhere due to the design. I would like to maybe make sure that the parts fit together better. I did it on the nose skin on the wings but after I did the first wing it was just like the rest of the savs so I made some mods and the second wing looked much better so I went back and modified the first wing but it didnt quite come up as good as the second. its only asthetics really. So thats the plan down the track...but I have to get the first one flying yet :)

 

Mark

 

 

[eightyknots]

I was just editing my previous post when you wrote that: I had a bit of trouble uploading the picture, it was too large and had to be resized.

 

Here is a picture of a the factory-built wing. It also has some indentations around the rivet holes. It must be part of the design. Surely yours wouldn't be much different.

 

 

I think I will simply build an aeroplane for the enjoyment and the experience. Who knows, I might get hooked and want to build a second one!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

There s also another big dent in the row of rivets behind the main spar...I corrected this as well its in the posts somewhere but attached is a pic of my wing

 

Mark

 

I have some better pics which I will find but you can see one wing is really nice which is the second the other 2 pics show where I fixed the first wing I did

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

That 'good' wings looks smoother than the factory wing!

 

Since I have never seen an XL, I was wondering about the little door near the empennage that shows up on a number of photos. I was under the impression that it was supposed to be the location for the battery. When I had another look at the pictures, I noticed the Savannah S doesn't seem to have a battery in the tail, at least not as far as I can see, even though the door is visible on the right. See the photo of the inside of the fuselage below.

 

Where will your battery be in the XL?

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi 80Kts

 

You will find in a few posts back I was talking about the battery position. In the XL it is just behind the pilot but in the previous versions it was down the back where that little door is. I actually mounted mine there as the door is still there but after discussion with some XL owners I shifted back to the new position. In that door area I will make another small box that I can use for storage/balance if I need it. I am told when you are at MTOW the XL is slightly nose heavy and its good to put your tiedown kit down the back and this works nicely for the CG

 

Mark

 

Picked up the super etch and the primer today will get some of the paint next week. I want to paint the firewall and the front floor of the cabin this week as most of those parts are done

 

 

[eightyknots]

I wonder how much the two Australian options have an effect on weight and balance? The options I mean are the long-range tanks and the extended baggage area. I would have thought extending the baggage area would shift the weight to the tail rather than the nose. I am not sure what fitting the extra fuel tanks would do the W & B, especially if they are full, but they seem to be pretty close to the centre of gravity.

 

Just thinking aloud here, perhaps the extended baggage meant that you could move the battery forward, away from the little door at the end of the fuselage.

 

I have been told that few people in other parts of the world choose both and only a relatively small number choose even one of the options.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I am not sure on whether the options make that much difference as there are a lot of the earlier savs with the extended tanks. The guys I spoke to with XL versions all said to keep the battery in the new location and use the rear compartment to offset any CG requirements

 

Mark

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi All

 

Well looked at the weather forecast for up at my farm and it looked like crap so had to force myself to stay at home for the long weekend and work on the Sav...what a bummer NOT :)

 

I would like to thank Greg (Gundy) for calling in on Thursday night and giving me some well informed pointers about certain parts of building the sav..he has built 3 of them including the latest S model you may have seen on another thread here on the sav forum. One BIG thing was the washers that go in between the ball links for the aileron/flaperon control rods. The manual has a issue that it tells you to put 2 certain type of washer between the balls and the face of the bellcranks well I could not find these washers in the kit so I went and bought some AN960-5 anyway I put them in and they seemed to work but looked like at full movement they may bind slightly. I asked Steve Donald and he couldnt find any either in his kit and used some he got. Well it turns out they do supply the washers in the kit but not the ones specified in the manual they are small little rings and now they are fitted it works much better. I of course told Steve and he promptly changed his as well so if anyone who is building a sav or has built one and has a small bag of small ring type things left over that is what they are for.

 

I am at the stage of fitting the cabin frame and the manual calls for the diagonals to be within +/_ 5 mm in dimensions Greg told me this is pretty critical for when the wings go on it affects the wing to tailplane distance and I think the max allowable is 30mm at either end the closer you can get these to be the same the better so I spent most of today getting these sorted. You will see in the pics I have 4 sets of vise grips holding pins exactly over the wing mounting holes on the front and rear and you measure across these for the diagonals distance. Once you get this setup with the jigs at the side holding the front wing mount then you drill the alu tubes in their mounted position and cleo them all. But before you can do this you need to fit the engine mount so you get the mounting holes in the right place for the front V bars that come from the cabin frame that mount to the top mount of the engine mount you can see in the pics that it becomes one nice solid area for the engine to be braced to.

 

The front bars of the cabin frame now have a slight bend in the apparently done at the factory to allow the windscreen to sit better but this makes getting those front bars up to the back of the engine mount a bit of a mission but it all came together pretty well. Now all the holes are drilled and the frame is clecoed its time to remove it all including the engine mount as I want to etch and paint the firewall also put on the front skin for the dask then I can fit the noseleg and the rest of the parts on the firewall remount the cabin frame recheck the diagonals to make sure and then can get onto fitting the rear of the seats and the bottoms. I am getting to the part now where all the really fiddly bits are coming then of course the painting which will take a while as well. But I am really happy with the outcome this weekend so tomorrow will remove the engine mount and cabin frame and get this other stuff done. I need to order my engine in the next week or so too so it will be here when I am ready for it.

 

The pics of the 2 rods coming out of the front mount go from the back mount this was just to check there was no warp and both wings will be at the same incidence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

A Question for Savannah XL Owners and Builders:

 

Has anyone modified their Savannah XL (owners) or are in the process or planning to modify their XL (builders) to be able to carry a fold up bike? ...or two fold-up bikes??

 

I noticed that JG3 (a member of this forum) has done this on his Savannah "VG". See http://www.stolspeed.com/bike-on-board JG3's bike weighs 12 kg but I noticed that you can now buy fold up bikes made from "aircraft aluminium" for as little as 6 kg and they appear to fold up a lot smaller. Perhaps two could be carried for both POB???

 

In any case, it looks like a very useful modification. I would be really interested if this would be possible with an XL as well.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have seen JG's pushie mod and it looks great but he usually flys solo all the time so has plenty left for MTOW. His passenger seat usually carrys fuel :) The extended baggage area is pretty large and if these bikes fold up a lot smaller maybe they will fit in there it can take up to 20kg so the weight isnt a issue. Find out how small the bikes fold up to and I will measure the baggage area

 

Mark

 

 

[Ultralights]