Well a few questions......

[Jase]

Hi All,

 

I have a few questions on my upcoming reintroduction to flight training after about 3 years. I originally flew Piper Warrior IIIs down at Moorabbin and achieved my first solo and was up to second, however after speaking to a new flight school at Archerfield it has been suggested that I look at the Cessna 172R. What are people's thoughts on the change and whether this will cause me major problems?

 

Also I was told by the CFI that their policy is to teach oval circuits as opposed to the rectangular circuits I was taught YMMB. Does anyone have any views on this? I think technically it is not that big a change and in some ways might be easier as in terms of when to turn that is pretty much governed by a constant bank....... Just seems a little strange or perhaps just something I have not come across before.

 

Sorry for the long post but any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

J

 

 

[Bidgee]

The 172 wont cause you any problems but why not fly something cheaper like an RAA AC? You can always go back to the 172 or Piper later in your training and save a packet in the meantime.

 

AFAIK oval cts tend to be taught by instructors with military background. Most RAA and GA are taught rectangular cts. Not a big deal but the rectangular cts will give you a better feel for where other AC are in the cts and what the wind is doing.

 

 

[Mazda]

Hi Jase, welcome back to flying.

 

It really won't take you long to get used to the 172. The R is a fairly new model so should be well equipped, probably better equipped than the old warriors.

 

Differences? Firstly, the high wing will mean you cannot see approaching traffic on final, you will have to stop at an angle at the holding point. You won't be able to see through the turn due to the wing either, which means you won't see the runway during turns in the circuit. Choose a reference point off your wingtip before you turn, and when doing circuits maybe set the heading bug to the runway direction, which will help you in the circuit.

 

Also remember to lift the wing before you turn, because you won't be able to see traffic.

 

The 172R glides pretty well and doesn't have the old barn door flaps that the older 172s did, so if you end up high on approach, you might not get in. The best way to lose height in them if you need to is to slow down (a lot). You can also get the first stage of flap out early, it's outside the white arc. Your instructor will go through this.

 

They are a bit more responsive than the old Warriors but they are a bit more of a handful in a crosswind, so try to get some good crosswind training.

 

They don't like a fast approach and they prefer a slightly higher nose attitude. I'm splitting hairs here though, they are not vastly different.

 

Oval circuits are good. Military pilots tend to use them, and twin pilots often do. It won't take long to adjust to that. Just be aware when looking for traffic that aircraft may also be flying a rectangular circuit so look out for them.

 

Which school are you going to at Archerfield?

 

 

[facthunter]

Oval circuits.

 

The heavy stuff uses them, but I don't know why you would do this in the initial stages of training on basic trainers. It is pretty easy to go from one to the other once you have a bit of time up. To contribute to david's comments you have a minumum height to commence turn after take off and likewise a minumum height to be aligned with the runway on approach. You have to be pretty precise to do the oval ones well particularly with crosswind conditions . From the commencement of the turn from downwind you are looking at the projected centre line of the runway and making small adjustments constantly. It does suit compact circuits, ie bad weather circuits. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I don't understand why you would want to teach ovals? Everyone else is doing rectangles, bar the military and the heavies,??...Just to be different??...or special??:laugh:All the basic publicatioons talk about ccts as the five legs, all the casa stuff refers to five legs??... Im confused..(thats not hard but);).... Premadonna anyone???

 

 

[facthunter]

Decide.

 

I'm not sure on this. I have done much more oval than square, but with slower aircraft I would definately promote the use of a square circuit. You are fiddling around too long with getting a bank angle and a nice turn when you are going at about 60 kts and if you sit in close enough to maintain a continuously banked turn from downwind to final with any reasonable bank angle, (I feel 30 degrees is a good maximimum, and at 10 you are hardly doing anything) your downwind leg will be very close in. In a training situation this might be a bit hard to judge for a low hours pilot and the chances of anyone misjudging it are increased. With a square circuit, you are able to break the assessments of how you are going into more separate parts. You can widen out ,or cut the corner a bit etc.. The circling approach has to be right all the way with only subtle changes done here and there to finesse it. A bit challenging when there is an easier way , especially in the early stages of learning. Nev

 

 

[shags_j]

Five bucks says you are learning at sunland. The cfi there used to be a raaf and that's why (well that's what they say anyway) they fly oval circuits.

 

The oval circuit isn't that hard. It's actually a little easier to space yourself i guess as you don't need to estimate the crosswind leg much.

 

If it is Sunland, fly the 172 and not the Cherokee (constantly broke down on me which cost me more hours in converting to the 172). The 172 is actually a nicer aircraft to fly. I prefer low wing to high wings but haven't flown one for so long that I would probably feel the opposite now.

 

Either way you will enjoy it. So long as where flying it doesn't matter where or in what, so long as it's safe. Just have fun.