Restricted Airspace Entry?

[Foto_Flyer]

This question was prompted by another post, relating to Mick Poole's article in the April mag.

 

He say's there, and I quote, " and the removal of the 'restricted airspace' flight restrictions to some degree". Now, I was under the impression that RAAus pilots were not permitted into restricted airspace, active or otherwise and as such, Mick's comment meant that, in some areas, we may get clearance to transit these as marked on the charts and in the ERSA. However, some seem to believe that it refers to entry to Class C, according to comments that have been made. So what is he referring to, does anybody have a clearer idea?

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Should we be holding our collective breath?

 

:kboom:

 

 

[frank marriott]

I read into this as including RAA licenced pilots to enter CTA as is already the case with PPL or higher in an approved aircraft.

 

I don't see the dropping of Approved aircraft and communications [& transponder where necessary] and the requirement to submit a flight plan.

 

I would be surprised to see approval to all RAA type aircraft????????????

 

I also suspect there would be a CTA endorsement on the licence necessary.

 

Frank

 

 

[Matt]

Why not call Mick or Lee and ask them directly - they're numbers and email addresses are in the magazine.

 

 

[Vev]

Ian B,

 

Can you speak with Mick and provide some substance to this cryptic reference about air space access?

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[Admin]

Mick is currently in the US on leave

 

I will try and get a moment with Lee but he is very busy at the moment

 

 

[perthjay85]

im not familiar with the RA rules but are RA pilots allowed through danger areas or restricted areas when they are not active???

 

could this be what they mean by lifting "restricted airspace"

 

 

[Admin]

Just spoke to Lee inbetween mobile phone drop outs but I think I have the jist of it.

 

There use to be areas that were used by the military and was classed as CTA however the military in their wisdom had them rezoned to restricted.

 

However there were as in the case of for example East Sale a corridor that GA aircraft could use through the restricted zone but RAAus aircraft were not allowed.

 

What Mick is referring to, or so I believe, is getting permission to transit the restricted zone through the corridors as defined for GA for RAAus aircraft.

 

I hope I got it right but as I said the phone was dropping out

 

 

[Vev]

Ian,

 

Thanks for this, hopefully you did get it right .... good to see some common sense prevail in the interest of safety.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

 

 

[Tomo]

im not familiar with the RA rules but are RA pilots allowed through danger areas or restricted areas when they are not active???

G'day PerthJay,

 

Danger area's are just that, you are "Allowed" to enter them, but beware! there could be dangers in there!

 

Restricted area's are area's where there is a... err 'restriction', so you need to ask for permission.

 

 

[Mazda]

Danger areas are just somewhere to be careful and look out. Training areas are classified as danger areas - have a look at your VTC. No clearance is required to enter a danger area, just keep a good look out.

 

Restricted areas require clearance for GA, I'm not sure if RA aircraft are able to obtain a clearance.

 

Prohibited areas mean you can't go in at all.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Restricted....if it's active,you can't go there (without an airways clearance)...if it's inactive...you can fly through..

And just in case this isn't clear enough - CAO 95.10/32/55 prohibit access to Restricted areas when active. As its a restriction on the aircraft this applies even if you have a PPL.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[perthjay85]

tomo danger areas arent prohibited at all you can fly through them its just that a danger area to keep a special look out while transiting.

 

and restricted areas are just that restricted but you do not need permission from a person or body. check notams and ERSA some are only restricted at certain parts of the day, week or month.

 

 

[Tomo]

tomo danger areas arent prohibited at all you can fly through them its just that a danger area to keep a special look out while transiting.

Sorry about that guys, was meaning "you can do it"!!! but got me vocabulary back to front!

 

(that nurse drained to much blood outa me, me thinks! :ah_oh: )

 

 

[bilby54]

I haven't seen the details but there is now a temporary change to airspace around Amberley.

 

There is a Danger Area from surface to 10,000 that can be changed to restricted so you will need to check Notams regularly. The airspace that is affected will extend to around Dalby, the north coast and into Northern NSW...

 

Watch out for low flying Super Hornets and B737 tankers!!

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I've not studied it yet but the details are here http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/sup/s10-h18.pdf

 

Not sure how a Danger area can become a Restricted area though ?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Foto_Flyer]

Thanks all, especially Ian for calling Mick "long distance"!

 

It wasn't till I got to Crezzi's first post about the CAO 95.xx that I remembered that it's all there in the Ops Manual. (how quickly one forgets!) Yep, restricted is available to RA-Aus pilots and aircraft while deactivated.

 

I didn't think it would refer to the Class C entry, proposed as part of CAR Part 103, and subsequently shelved recently by CASA.

 

So that all makes better sense now! Thanks again! (Will check out the PDF doc too, thanks Crezzi.)

 

 

[Foto_Flyer]

Not sure how a Danger area can become a Restricted area though ?

It looks like it will be a danger area up to a certain level (1000ft to 5000ft, depending on which area) and restricted above that.

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks all, especially Ian for calling Mick "long distance"! Crezzi.)

It called Lee in Qld so a little long distance :big_grin:

 

 

[Foto_Flyer]

Oops! my situational awareness obviously needs work, didn't register that you had called Lee not Mick! Well, thanks anyway! I better go back and revise the section on keeping a proper look out in the HF syllabus!!!

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

I was having a leisurely fly a couple of months ago and was keen to ring avalon to see if I could go for a squirt through the guts if it was not active..

 

I rang the tower and introduced myself and said I was a RAA low hour pilot not PPL GA but was flying a Xponder equipped A/C and was it possible if I could have my first flight through avalon if it was not active to get from melton to barwon heads.

 

He replied that Avalon was active but had low traffic and continued to say "are you comfortable to fly on the outskirts from the proving ground direct to barwon heads which will give you a bit of a buzz" I replied "hell yeah" so he said report to me over the proving ground in 45 mins. so with that I quickly planed a bail out plan (just in case of diversion) and I was off.

 

Got to the proving ground and reported "avalon tower jabiru ****) he then proceeded to call back and I reported avalon tower jabiru **** reporting proving grounds request track direct to barwon aerodrome, (mean while I could hear this bloke talking to airbus comming in over the you yangs beside me :big_grin:

 

he then came back jabiru **** decend 150 sqwak **** and with that replied

 

jabiru **** decending 150 sqwak ****

 

At this time I was just in awe of this big thing only a stones throw away I felt like a real pilot. upon getting over Geelong I hear Jabiru **** I replied Jabiru ****

 

he came back asking me to return xponder to 1200 and have a good day, done the reply Jabiru **** xponder 1200 thanks ,

 

With that he came back and said Jabiru **** glad to help out.

 

and with that I completed my first ever (LEGAL) aispace penetration

 

Wether or not I was allowed to do so or not I am not sure but hey I had permission and made myself known beforehand even rang the tower to sus it all out....

 

The way it sould be planed especialy for people like me who don't have much experience.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi Adrian.

 

I just have to point out that while you did everything right, it was not legal.

 

I hear people doing it a lot, and ATC are all too happy to oblige, but if you don't have a PPL with CTA endorsement or higher license, you can't enter CTA.

 

Not your fault, but we don't want people reading this and thinking it's OK. It can only harm any chance of getting our own CTA endorsement one day.

 

You did great prearranging it and having a transponder and knowing how to use it.

 

Remember ATC are not there to enforce rules/laws. If you ask, they will likely be very helpful and grant your request. But if something happened, you'd be in a spot of bother.

 

Cheers,

 

Ross

 

 

[Tomo]

Great planning Adrian, and good job.

 

But unfortunately Slarti is right.

 

I live next to Military restricted airspace, and I've spoken to the tower before, they will gladly let you in, but I just can't with my RAA license, sadly.

 

I'll be there soon though once my ppl is done! :thumb_up:

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

Like a Jedi "I was never here"

 

Dont know what your all talking about....

 

Yes PPL is next up for me as well.... straight after the 601 Rebuild...

 

 

[Al B]

Not your fault, but we don't want people reading this and thinking it's OK. It can only harm any chance of getting our own CTA endorsement one day.

I don't endorse anyone flying illegally (and I would never enter CTA unless there was an emergency) - but I thought that the only reason night VFR was permitted was because many pilots kept on doing it illegally, and the regulator reasoned it was safer for them to have _some_ form of training, rather then nothing?One viewpoint (and I'm not saying it's correct) is that if the RAA has x thousand pilots, and they are all legal and never use CTA, then clearly we have no use for it. If every year a moderate number got busted (by, say, calling for clearance and sounding like they don't know what they're doing) then some training could make these pilots safe and legal.

 

Of course the other viewpoint is that if X RAA pilots bust airspace, then we're a bunch of cowboys who should be kept at least 50NM from the class C/D steps.