BRS - affordable safety, or an expensive gimmick?

[sseeker]

This video is always pulled up as a reason that you don't want one.AND IS TOTALLY INVALID

 

It is a very very early generation chute - it DID NOT have the safety features incorporated into todays BRS type devices.

 

By the deployment I don't even think it is ballistic as the chute is dragged out by the small ( whatever it called ) chute

 

Yes there is always a possibility of malfunction with any mechanical device. but like the airbag argument better to have when you really need it than wishing you had one, because if things are that pear shaped you chance of survival is pretty slim

 

I have even read suggestions that there was some pilot error involved.

Sorry you're right but there was no need for the capitalization, I'm sure we can all read. Yes they use a jet propelled system now (as I've been told) where it pretty much blows out of the cylinder*ish* shape, yes there has been safety modifications added but it could still happen regadless of the chute type.

 

-Andrew

 

 

[sain]

There are a couple of people who have posted here saying they can't think of a reason why they'd need one. To me thats structure failure in flight.

 

The CH601XL wing structure failure in flight issue is a pretty good example of a situation where they are useful. Not wanting to restart the debates on that, essentially a bunch of them had wing foldups in flight despite analysis not indicating any problem with the plane. (fixs have now been released). A number of deaths were the result of this problem. Would a BRS have saved any of them? I call that as a maybe, and that maybe makes them worthwhile to me.

 

 

[winsor68]

It was a stunt for an MTV music video (as clearly stated in the info at the bottom of the video...)

 

:confused:

 

 

[Tracktop]

Sorry you're right but there was no need for the capitalization, I'm sure we can all read. Yes they use a jet propelled system now (as I've been told) where it pretty much blows out of the cylinder*ish* shape, yes there has been safety modifications added but it could still happen regadless of the chute type.-Andrew

Apologies for the capitals - not aimed at you but merely to attract attention.

 

I would hate to think someone decided not to go the BRS way ( and found themselves in the situation where they needed one) because they had seen this video, and made an early decision in their research not to pursue more info and making a correctly informed choice.

 

Yes I do agree and did state that a malfunction could still occur BUT so to could ( and probably with similar likelyhood.

 

The wings fall off

 

The aircraft break in the middle

 

The tail fall off

 

Or simply the ac control wires/ linkages seize/break

 

etc, etc

 

Much more likely for

 

Mid air collision with other ac or wildlife causing partial damage and loss of control

 

Medical issue with pilot - not just heart problem but what about some sort of loss of vision or balance and I am sure many others

 

Weather and turbulence can usually be avoided so may not be a valid reason, I am sure

 

at times there is some weather is unseen and unpredicted so ????????

 

While I don't think the tiger country scenario is a valid reason to fit a BRS, we are all human and prone to make the occasional incorrect decision.

 

As to expensive or gimmick. Think of it like insurance

 

Flight insurance in the air probably runs at about 1.5%

 

so for an ac of ( number out of air) $100000 value that's $1500

 

Life of chute ?? 8 - 10 yrs ( not sure)

 

so thats $12000

 

Fall out of the sky in a bad way and your insurance will only be of value to your next of kin.

 

Spend $7000 on a chute and you may just live to fly again, and maybe even salvage the ac.

 

Sounds like reasonable value to me.

 

I keep thinking of the saying

 

Better to be down hear wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here.

 

I think if the need ever arose

 

It would be

 

Better to be up here with a handle to pull and a chance to survive, than wishing you had spent the money on a BRS on the way down with little chance of survival.

 

And No I don't have a BRS but I regularly consider the pros and cons.

 

 

[Spin]

The thread about the forced landing on the beach reminds me of another, rather more likely scenario where a chute could potentially save the day. Some aircraft (including the ubiquitous C172) are apparently all but uncontrollable following the loss of the windscreen and several crashes have been attributed to birdstrike and subsequent loss of control when the turbulent airflow blankets the tailplane. I seem to recall that the AD on Zenith 601 canopy latches was prompted by similar concerns.

 

 

[alf jessup]

My 2 bobs worth,

 

I fly a trike and flew over 450hrs without a chute feeling totally comfortable in the machine I was flying.

 

Then one day coming out of a turn i came across 4 ibis's directly infront of me (yes i scanned b4 the turn but didnt see them) at about 20 ft above me with no time to react and they dived as they do, one missed my leading edge spar by inches and there i was picturing myself spiraling to the ground with one and a half wings.

 

I got home that day and had a think about what my life was worth and realised it was worth much more that the $6400 it cost me to get the chute and fit it if it gave me a possible second chance at living if i needed it. I have no doubt in my ability and my machine it is for the unexpected like i found out that can jump out from the unknown and the known.

 

Yes i did do some research on the BRS 1050 chutes designed for the XT912 before i commited and one of my concerns was the chute deploying in flight.

 

After reading all the info on this chute by BRS the only way they "say" the chute will deploy is if the activation handle is pulled to fire the pin or the cable running to the chute gets snagged on a branch or some fixture that could activate the firing mechanizm, the chute they say will not deploy with a hard landing or even in a fire.

 

It is an induvidual choice whether or not you like ,dislike, want or don't want a chute but rest assured if the time came where you may need a second chance you might just wish you had one of those gimmicks on just to see if it would have saved you.

 

Let me tell you if i ever need to use it and it don't open you will all know what the last thing going through my mind was on the way down, I will be cussing the crap out of the BRS for the $6400 anchor i have been carrying around all this time.

 

If it opens well i might just be smiling or then again i might just well be crapping myself as i drift towards the 66000 volt transmittion lines but i'll take that chance as my life i feel is worth it to my family and my kids let alone my love of breathing.

 

Oh btw i think the chute need repacking every 8 years and the rocket is good for 10 years.

 

Ok sorry it was a bucks worth.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[farri]

I can recall 2 incidents that occured in Victoria, many years ago,when Trikes were still a novility, a couple of guys decided to give the press a demonstration flight as a public relations exercise.

 

With the press watching,the first guy took off and had an engine failure,not to be deterred the second guy took off and he had a BRS fitted and gues what? it deployed accidentally just after take off,fortunately no one was injured but not good press at all.

 

As well as discussing wheather BRS are a good safety device or not,does anyone know of any Ultralight/Recreational aircraft that have had an incident and been saved by one, here in Australia.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Oh btw i think the chute need repacking every 8 years and the rocket is good for 10 years.

Hi Alf,

 

Whats involved in the repacking?

 

Does it have to go back over seas with all the associated freight problems?

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

True, the extra 10kg might have been fuel for an extra hour of flight, but because human nature is to push the boundaries we need a backup plan. $6K is cheap insurance in the scheme of things. A BRS is not, however, a guaranteed saviour. The decent rate is at least 7m/second, so you hit the earth pretty hard, and need to be nose down to allow the undercart to absorb most of the impact. Plenty of styrofoam or similar under your seat is also a good idea.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Hi Alf,Whats involved in the repacking?

Does it have to go back over seas with all the associated freight problems?

 

Bill,

 

I know you cannot sent the rocket back with the chute, as far as i can recall you have to send the chute cannister back to BRS minus the rocket.

 

When the rocket expires i guess you just have to re order one and go through the motions of getting it into country.

 

Alf

[Tracktop]

Hi

 

A real experience answer to the original question.

 

well worth a read through all the posts.

 

One happy chappy.

 

www.microlighters.co.za • View topic - Ballistic chute deployment Bronkhorstspruit?

 

Big thanks to the link supplier. ;-)

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Interesting post Ray. Good to hear the guy is unharmed but I'm still inclined towards your earlier comment regarding BRS & tiger country

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Tracktop]

I don't know anymore than what is in the article but reading between the lines, the area

 

he was flying in, may have been non tiger country with a small area near the Dam that had no nice options.

 

Unfortunately it was while crossing that area when the fan stopped. Maybe some more height would have helped,

 

easy to speculate after the event and without any more knowledge, maybe he normally flys with landing options in reach and made a misjudgement or mistake.

 

We are all human ( I think) and prone to make the occasional error or poor risk assessment. He was lucky he had another option.

 

Again reading between the lines and his reaction, I doubt he took the chute into account when he made the decision to cross that area like he did.

 

Still agree too John - Most important to always fly like you ain't got one.

 

 

[Willborne]

Where to they vent once deployed?

 

I was wondering where these BRS vent once fired? If your cockpit is enclosed I'd guess you would get a nasty dose of some pretty toxic fumes. Much safer if they vented outside the cockpit.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Unfortunately, a BRS would not have saved the two POB on this Cessna yesterday: Two dead in Feilding plane collision - national | Stuff.co.nz

 

 

[dazza 38]

Two dead in Feilding plane collision - national | Stuff.co.nz[/url]

My condolences to the Families involved.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I haven't been following this thread nor have I read it all but for what it's worth, here's my view. If you're flying a certified aircraft, whether old or new, you shouldn't need one PROVIDED you're flying within the a/c safety envelope. Good airmanship should have you over reasonable ground at all times and good training should allow you to put the a/c back on it.

 

If, however, you're flying a one off experimental, or have done some serious mods to your plane, then yes, it'd be good to know that you have a fall back option, at least until the plane or mods are proven safe. I wonder if I could hire one if and when my Eagle-Ray flies.

 

 

[Tracktop]

All part of the risk assessment Doug and we each make our own decisions about what is acceptable risk.

 

But remember other things share the air with us and have been responsible for bring down many ac in the past.

 

Good airmanship and training may not be enough to help in an ac that is severely disabled eg after a pelican or eagle strike

 

If you look at history - being a certified ac doesn't seem to guarantee they won't fall from the sky for one reason or another either.

 

A BRS MAY just give you another chance should the worst happen. Wishing for a BRS on the way down ain't gunna help any.

 

And if it fails to deploy or open correctly I'm sure there would be some cursing going on, but I accept it also is part of the risk.

 

 

[eightyknots]

This person WAS saved by his BRS when his wing fell off mid-flight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn4k_Fek4Dg This is amazing footage!

 

Apparently his only injury was a slight burn on his foot.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Nice clean, fast deployment and stable decent. Anyone know what the aircraft was?

 

 

[facthunter]

Aircraft Type

 

I believe it is a Rans Chaos. Note the plane is on fire during the descent. Possibly lit by the chute charge? With the wing departing there may have been fuel around. Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

for what it's worth, here's my view. If you're flying a certified aircraft, whether old or new, you shouldn't need one PROVIDED you're flying within the a/c safety envelope. Good airmanship should have you over reasonable ground at all times and good training should allow you to put the a/c back on it.

Doug,

 

What about the birds you dont see or the bloke coming the other way at your altitude even if you are at the correct altitude for the direction your heading.

 

Engine failures yep force land unless of course you got yourself over terrain you dont like.

 

The chute would only be used for things like, pilot incapacitaion, structural damage caused by striking objects you dont see ie birds, aircraft whether enroute somewhere or in the circut.

 

Basically it is maybe a second chance at life if something unforeen happens up there totally out of your control nothing more.

 

Cheers

 

Alf