Drifter Double Fatality near Lismore

[Guest Maj Millard]

A bit late now of course, but surley if people noticed significent rust on/in the cables they should have been replaced prior to this sad end result. And what about the UACR (ul aircraft condition report) that an L2 had to do for the sale to the victim. Were the condition of the cables mentioned in that ?..it is on file. Unfortunatly cables can have significant rust on internal strands also which is not always visable. Also we have folks who noticed and commented on the rust at the cable to swage junction point. This is a prev known failure point. It appears to be an unnecessary mechanical failure that could have been prevented by correct prior inspection and service...................................................Maj...

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

May I ask a question without appearing to be niave or stupid? We are taught to do a walk around our aircraft before each flight is it the same with gyros , drifters ect? Sue

 

 

[Tomo]

I'm sure the cables would have been replaced after/before sales since seeing some pictures of what it was previously, it deffinatly wasn't like that.

 

But living near the coast, and you do need to maintain wire rope, also wire rope is prone to die inside out, so even if it looks good from the outside, you need to do a vigilant check every now and then to ensure it is still good. They will generally stretch, so looseness is worth checking also. Any loose wire will deem it unworthy in my eyes, a loose bound wire rope will chaff and cause wear.

 

We probably shouldn't speculate that this was his problem, as we aren't going off very strong facts, other than we did notice a rusty wire. It would be nice to find out though what really happened eventually.

 

Sue: No questions a stupid question! You should know that!!!

 

To answer it though, the big answer is YES it is still the same, if not more on something with wires than a strut braced aircraft.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Sue, your correct of course, it is every pilots' responsibility to do a good preflight. And we are only speculating on the actual cause, at this time as Tomo states. However Drifters generally are just not known for folding wings, in fact I believe this is only the second one I've heard of, in many years of Drifter service throughout the world.

 

Additionally not all pilots have the technical expertise, or training, to really spot a bad or dangerous cable. In GA for instance CASA has issued special Service instructions relating to the specific inspection techniques to be used on cables. There are not too many wing support cables in GA anymore, so mostly they are control-system cables tensioned to around 30 lbs.

 

This Drifter with it's Fisher style small wing would have a high wing loading per Sq Ft and therefore could have been loading the flying wires (bottom ones) quite a bit higher than 30 lbs. I'd have to do the figures to work out the actual load per cable. Normally the cables would be more than capable of carrying those loads, and more. However in a rusted condition it would be anybody's guess. We also don't know if the aircraft was flying along in normal cruise flight, being exposed to excessive loads through excessive manouvers, or wether simply one cable let go, got hooked into the prop, and pulled the lot in with it. This unfortunate scenero occurred once previously when excessivly sun faded wingskins failed, and were pulled into the prop which then failed the wing.

 

I'm sure we have good people looking at it right now, so we will find out no doubt in the future, what actually happened here.............................................................................................Maj..

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

thanks for the reply Maj it gives me more of an insight to other factors of the different sorts airwings. Was not trying to be smart just wanted to get it sorted out in my own mind. Once again thanks Maj. Sue

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Thanks Sue, I didn't mean my reply to be aggressive at all, and especially not toward you. I tend to look at these things from the technical side as I work in the industry........Cheers Maj..

 

 

[skeptic36]

This Drifter with it's Fisher style small wing would have a high wing loading per Sq Ft and therefore could have been loading the flying wires (bottom ones) quite a bit higher than 30 lbs. ..Maj..

Hi Maj,

Wouldn't the take off weight of the aircraft be the controlling factor for the loading on the flying wires rather than the size of the wing?

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[HEON]

It would seem that a likely cause of what appears from reports to be a wing failure would be the initial failure of a/some wing support cables. I personally do not wish to speculate on what caused the probable failure.

 

Having just taken part in a maintenance course which included Drifters, I agree that it is difficult to assess cable condition without much more expearance than I have.

 

Is there any recommended service life for them? Anything to especially look for except rust and broken strands? Test tention...same or variations over time...how frequently recommended?

 

My interest is personal as my new Fisher received it's final inspection on Saturday and thus I will be up there relying on them wires as soon as I get my rego back from RAA.

 

 

[monty]

Originally Posted by Maj Millard

 

This Drifter with it's Fisher style small wing would have a high wing loading per Sq Ft and therefore could have been loading the flying wires (bottom ones) quite a bit higher than 30 lbs.

 

This isn't realy relivent but may be interesting to some. The old Austflight Drifter is designed to withstand loads of 50 fps at 48 knots for high wind gust loads. Not sure but the Fisher could probably stand more?

 

Monty

 

 

[Guest JRMobile]

What the Local Paper said this morning:

 

Dead pilot was experienced flyer | Northern Rivers News | Local News in Northern Rivers | Northern Star

 

 

[seb7701]

Not at all trying to further dampen what is already a tragic situation, but heartless as it may sound, articles like that are a bugger to the RAA cause in times like this.

 

Nobody means any harm by them, I acknowledge that as they are juts a product of a bad situation, but is causes a little consternation to know that the general public will read the article and see phrases like ....“He knew what he was doing. He respected life and wouldn’t take risks.”

 

They then would probably discount pilot error and look straight to the aircraft being flown and say, oh, well, that's another one of those bloody ultralights crashing again. What do you expect.

 

I know am am re-hashing what was touched on at the beginning of the thread, but I get the impression that the poor souls in question should have gone home safely to their families at the end of the day had a few different choices been made along the way.

 

Regardless of what might or might not tick me off, my heart truly goes out to the families.

 

 

[BigPete]

Some reporters (and editors) should be boiled in oil.

 

What a pathetic last line....(post #37)

 

regards

 

 

[seb7701]

Yeah, that line didn't benefit anyone did it.

 

 

[BigPete]

It certainly did not.

 

regards

 

 

[turboplanner]

You haven't noticed the Youtube videos Pete? This incident is being discussed Nationally, along with the behaviour at Inglewood and on previous occasions, and it has the potential to drag in some tighter regulations and administration...and costs... for everyone in recreational aviation.

 

 

[seb7701]

Can I dare ask what happened at Inglewood? PM if necessary...

 

 

[facthunter]

Strength of Wires.

 

Wires can be very strong but how do you know if they have deteriorated? I think I would test them, (as you test a pressure vessel), that is regularly, by removing them and applying a suitable tension. How else would you know? Not hard to do really. Even new wires have been crimped (?) incorrectly sometimes..Nev

 

 

[leestanley]

yes, this is being discussed by people around water coolers that have no knowledge of aviation... everyone is aware of this one! tragedy + past youtube footage = repercussions that may touch us all beyond empathy for the families involved...

 

 

[jetjr]

Its also being discussed elsewhere by people fairly experienced in aviation as an "example why RAA needs more regulation"

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

At the end of the day we all know the Press are maggots. No secret there. We cant change that as WE keep buying newspapers and watching TV. The Coroner will look at all that You Tube footage and study the crash report and will make up his or her mind as to what led to this event unfolding. Then there will be his or hers recommendations. This is where it all gets ugly so I hope the Coroner sees it for what it is and we all dont get punished. So sad for his family left behind.

 

Scotty

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Its also being discussed elsewhere by people fairly experienced in aviation as an "example why RAA needs more regulation"

And as we all know regulation never triumphs over stupidty, with the net result that the lowest common denominator just keeps getting lower and lower.

 

Now, just to protect myself, I dont mean to infer by this post that the fatalities to which this thread relates are, by association, a result of stupidity, they might be, but equally in the abscense of any published facts that relate to the flight that ended badly, they might equally not.

 

The stupidity I refer to is the fact that most of us here survived our teenage years behind the wheel of the car in many cases a result of more good luck than extensive additional regulation.

 

Clearly we need more cotton wool regulations....

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

....The Coroner will look at all that You Tube footage and study the crash report and will make up his or her mind as to what led to this event unfolding. Then there will be his or hers recommendations....Scotty

Actually I'm guessing that the coroner will stick solely to the crash investigation and the police report.... Why do you think he/she will go visit Youtube? Who would point him/her to youtube? While the video itself is interesting can it be anything other than hearsay? Im no lawyer...my uni law assignment scores attest to that fact! so I may be completely wrong... Interested to hear otherwise....

 

Also, when posting ask yourself would you be comfortable if a family member subsequently read your post, or would you be comfortable if casa also read it or perhaps the media. At the end of the day these are public forums

 

Andy

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Andy...there will be a lot of different people from a lot of different agency's that will need to put together very extensive reports of ALL evidence that is available. When the Coroner performs an inquest it is a very detailed and comprehensive study and ALL material available is presented allowing he or she to make an educated and informed finding.

 

Unfortunately over the years I have had a little to do with this side of things. It can even get very ugly which is never nice.

 

Scotty

 

 

[seb7701]

One of the overriding purposes behind a coronial inquest (in a situation where there is no chance of criminal proceedings), is to simply look at the incident and to ascertain whether anything may be implemented in order to prevent reoccurrence.

 

As mentioned in Andy's post, the coroner, I imagine, will be focussed mainly on this particular incident unless there was something link to other incidents with an apparent similarity in their likely cause. In honesty, if an investigator does their job properly and does know of the youtube footage, they would include it for the coroner's info.

 

As you can guess, the investigation is likely to look at the aircraft, the operator and operating environment and the videos do fall under the second category obviously.

 

The bonus is this - a coroner (normally....) doesn't just listen to a one sided or ill reported newspaper article for their facts, they take them from a variety of relevant and reliable sources, anything that might help in fact, gather all the info and look at the overall picture and go from there.

 

I certainly know only the smallest fraction of the facts in this case, but if one of the scenarios in my mind holds true, then I would like to think that this incident does not necessarily hold catastrophic consequences that some may fear.

 

Again, I DO NOT know all of the facts.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Isn't it amazing, a terrible accident brings out the poltic's and the politicians. Why don't we wait for the pro's to give us useable information before sprouting off about tougher reg's and higher cost's. The poor guys family's would be realing at the moment, and some posters seem only concerned about how this may hit THEM in the hip pocket. Poor form.

 

Deepest condolances to the family's.