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REQUEST TO THREAD PARTICIPANTS! Could we please keep this thread on topic? The quality of Chinese products in general, whether good or bad bear no relationship to the quality of Zonsen engines. Please could we have no further mention about Chinese products in general. This thread is specifically about the Zonsen Aero engines. If you have first hand knowledge about these engines then please contribute. If you have a direct statement from someone that has first hand knowledge or experience with these engines then please contribute. Please, no politics and no bashing of other thread participants. If someone is out of order, I will ask the Admins to address it, if they haven’t already picked it up. I have counted over 30 posts in this thread that have no relevance to Zonsen engines. As I have said before, we want to make this thread one where folks can go to find useful information. Off topic chats are not useful and are an unwanted distraction. Let’s try and build this thread as a receptacle for direct knowledge about the Zonsen Aero engines. Even as the distributor, I don’t care whether the feedback is good or bad about the engines, a lot can be learned and addressed from folks problems with a product or product support that can go towards addressing the issues to make a better product, with better product support. SO PLEASE, CAN WE STOP WITH THE OFF TOPIC DISCUSSIONS AND IRRELEVANT POSTS? Thanks, Dave

evening summer flying. Oh the enjoyable long days and twilight. plenty of time for flying after 6pm or even 8pm this time of year. A mix of cut and uncut paddocks. Had a look at Thruster's farm. no longer underwater. I really am paying attention. although- it does fly hands-off better now than it ever did before. (post re rigging the ailerons) Hmmm time to find an airport. I can see the reflection of my tail strobe on my instrument panel.

I don't recall being taught or told either way, TBH. I typically taxi or backtrack on the centerline of a taxiway or runway - but I can imagine an aircraft would be more visible if it were offset to one side of the white lines. As for: About as useful as a flyscreen in a fucken submarine. If you don't have anything meaningful to contribute, why bother? You could have at least told him which regulation of the 9,559,224 individual rules and subparts across the CAR's, CASR's, MOS' and Act's he should review....

Guys, I’d also beg you to refrain from off-topic discussions on this thread. I’m hoping that it can build to a useful and informative thread where folks can come to learn about these engines and our aircraft where the information, either good or bad can be found without having to troll through irrelevant comments. Thanks.

These four films cover the trip as far as Darwin (a series covering their flying within Australia is due later).

2nd day in a row of heavy rains. Recency is king so had to fly (7 day cycle) . Including 55mm that day, and 30mm in the previous 2 hours! The airport looked like an inland sea. Finally, late afternoon with cup of tea in hand at the clubhouse, several hours of waiting.... at 1715 the rain stops & I can see the mountains (so I can see to at least 750'AGL) and to the NW where the weather is coming from, blue sky. A few kg of water in the H-stab, glad I tipped that out , might have been a CofG surprise. plane is outside with large body canopy + wrap around engine cover over it at the moment, Just a 0.7 in the Piper , but most enjoyable. Flying after heavy rains in the summer, no bumps ...is delightful...... and those interesting low lying cloud clumps. Flew 15nm NW up to Thruster's farm to look at his half-cut wheat crop with the header parked.... where it was brilliant wall to wall blue sky . flight was 750-1100 ft AGL at a nice and sedate 100 knots at 25 lph , just poking around , looking at the puddles and places to land. relaxing . Bit of carb heat required at times in the 17degC misty skies. Not a single other aircraft heard. No one around...so conducted NDB approach (in visual). Blue sky edge of weather visible in top right hand corner of photo.

So MB, your theme song now, is that old Kenny Rogers song, "You picked a Bad Time to Leave Me, Loose Wheel!"? 😄

The legislations related to taxi and centerline tracking are in Part 61 Tolerances which stipulates that taxi have to be within +/-1.5m from the centerline, and when landing be within +/-2m from the centerline. https://www.legislation.gov.au/F2014L01102/2021-05-18/2021-05-18/text/1/epub/OEBPS/document_4/document_4.html#_Toc524084086 However, there are several situations when taxi can be done away from centerline. For example Formation takeoffs/landings/taxi, or situation when taxing/backtracking on a non-active runway. Also, give way aircraft to the right, landing aircraft, keep right, etc..: https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/casr1998333/s91.365.html#:~:text=(d) the aircraft and any,head on or approximately so. In all cases establish the comms and communicate intentions.

We have our first engine about to be shipped from the factory and delivery is anticipated late December/early January. If anyone is in the market for a new Rotax 912UL or 912ULS and fancies additional hp, this 109hp Zonsen CA510 engine will be available for sale. The final price will be advised once it has been delivered to our facility in Adelaide, but you could expect a saving over the lower powered 912ULS. If you might be interested in this engine, please pm me or make an enquiry through Rapture's website enquiry form. If you have a neat aircraft that would be a good showcase for the engine, we will consider sweetening the deal if you display your aircraft in the Rapture display at Ausfly 2025 (14/15 March at Wentworth) and possibly also at Avalon 2025 (25-30 March). If a customer doesn't take it, it will be going straight into one of our company aircraft that we can demonstrate. Cheers, Dave

Had a nice fly around the block, first fly for a few weeks due to weather and other commitments. Great conditions. Also yesterday received the rear wing tube upgraded bracket so in the wet can fit the 600 kg wing upgrade and in a couple of weeks finish off Ben’s wings. In the parcel were a set of 17mm silicone coolant hoses and clamps for the Rotax 912 ULS that will be fitted in the neat future. IMG_3323.mov

I can see light at the end of the tunnel, can't be too long now 😀

Just received my Issue 110 SP magazine - after a quick brows - binned it! This magazine is supposed to be a promotional window for RAA. This gloss & glitter publication, is so lacking in substance, it would not induce me to join (if I wasn't already in) The lack of factual information is astonishing. By way of example - check out the article on fuel, "The Lifeblood of flight" page 89. According to Mr Heath " MOGAS..... is essentially high-grade car fuel that meets aviation standards" news to me! He goes on to state "The petrol at most service stations contains ethanol, ........" really?? The BS continues unabated op page 91 - read on, if you can avoid choking and be astonished.

I think when the pilot and passengers are fixated on something on the ground airmanship goes out the window.

That magazine is aimed at the top end of town, they have forgotten about entry level ultralights, or is no one flying a single seat plane anymore?

A mother helicopter protecting her young.

I'm going to throw a brick into the mixer by saying the following regarding airmanship. If you have called Final, or, have entered the cleared Active Runway and advised such, or, have landed and are manoeuvring upon the active runway, the runway is "yours". The choice to taxi in the centre, right, or left side of the runway is "yours". The decision to allow another aircraft to enter the Active Runway while you are still manoeuvring upon it is "yours". It is also your responsibility to lead the situation and communicate with awareness of the situation. As pilot in command the decision to abort your take off, return to the parking area, shut down the engine, and boot the "passenger" in the right seat out of the aircraft, is "yours". Some airfields simply will result in the aircraft becoming bogged in mud unless remaining upon the centreline; so this offset taxi rule is not practical is it? Other fields have a terminal or parking at either end, so if the instructor gives you unwarranted grief and you own the aircraft you can boot them out and make them find the gate code to walk back; they might cause to rethink their abusive performance. At the same time being unnecessarily stubborn egotistical and uncompromising in the subjective situation will not help either.

Ok so we tested your theory. How much does the stationary wheel slow the aircraft upon landing? While on our way to Perth we were travelling at 100km/h when I noticed we were about to be overtaken by a stray wheel and tyre. I alerted Mrs M who had time to open the camera app on the iPad and take a shot. Loose Wheel.mp4 Then she used the iPhone to record the rest of its journey down the Great Northern Highway. The fact is it was our trailer spare that hit the road stationary but still managed to rotate at road speed in a very short period of time. It didn't need any fan assist to get it spinning and it didn't lose too much speed in the process. It did, however, travel for a very long way so may actually assist in keeping the plane moving down the runway 😁 Loose wheel2.HEIC

Nah. But I did install the seatbelts recently, so it's even safer to sit in.

Yes, but it must not be the usual practice stalls from straight and level with power off. CASA's Part 61 MOS has a broader suite of stall exercises. The FAA has some important additional ones. I fly with many instructors and instructor trainees - too many cannot tell me the correct method to recover from those, as if they didn't do them in their flight training at all. They were trained to pass the test, not trained for competency required in the elements specified in the MOS. CASA AC 61-16 https://www.casa.gov.au/spin-avoidance-and-stall-recovery-training has good advice such as: "Spin avoidance training where a wing may drop at the stall is best achieved through the following scenario based flight situations: − Approach configuration descending turns (base to final turn) − Go-around from approach configuration (significant change in trim state) − Climbing turns in departure configuration (trim changes, flap retraction and turns) − Engine failure after take-off (potential out of trim condition) − Slow flying o Turns o Distractions" I rarely encounter anyone who has practiced a stall in a climbing turn or a go-around and it shows by their dangerous WAG at the recovery actions. Most instructors get a surprise when I demo an inadvertent stall/spin with little or none of the usual stall warning symptoms that they are teaching. I always advise my trainees to maintain the usual speed on base all throughout the turn so as not to be in the habit of pulling back and increasing the AoA in that turn.

ok to be clear, i have the full maintenance records of this aircraft right back from when it was a VH registered aircraft. i have an aviation back ground as an AME on VH aircraft as well as two other trade quols, but obviously applied to larger vehicles but similar principles apply. All testing has been done, inspections performed in conjunction with an L2 maintainer. i just wish to iron this out before assumptions lead to things bigger than the problem at hand. i do apologise for the delay in communications given the fact i have been training and studying to do my license at the same time as this posting. as it stands i have run out of time as i don't live where the aircraft is hangered and will endeavor to sort the issue whilst sorting my L1 with RAAus. i do wish to thank the forum community for the shared knowledge as information is well worth its weight in gold. i will leave my post up till i have found the remidy and will share all, and any findings once rectified.

Funnily enough that's how I started my flying career when I saw a picture of a trike on the cover of a magazine in a dentists waiting room.

Rock and a hard place - I agree that the magazine could be done with less 'gloss' as it would be very expensive to produce. Last one I was associated with was >$400,000 for 20,000 copies after advertising. I suspect that the advertising revenue for Sport Pilot is significant. It was decided to remove all the gloss and get back to basics - advertisers left and the price out of our pocket to produce went up ............. Eventually the decision was made to go to online only (with those wanting a printed copy to pay for their copy), and the readership stats went down and advertisers left at an accelerating rate. As I have mentioned, the editor of any magazine is always chasing content - send in an article. It would only need one short article every few years from each member.

It's the only plane that can accommodate his gigantic ego

What were the updates? bigger toilets for his fat arse?

Eprop balance the whole assembly inc the spacer no matter what length at the factory before delivery and each part is marked so it goes together exactly how it should be. All customers report that they have never flown behind a prop that is so smooth and finely balanced. I suspect that they use a 2 plane balancer at the factory because the balance of every prop is outstanding. There are balancing weights inside the spacer and also the spinner

To me 'Good Airmanship" is not only knowing & acting on the rules, it's also about courtesy. Courtesy is; Not just about keeping your aircraft safe by communicating appropriately, it's about the other aircraft as well. Recognising the dynamic nature of flying and being flexible (about the rules) when appropriate. Understanding that not all pilots are "top guns" - the other pilot may be under a lot of stress (low time/student/etc) and need some space/encouraging words. Speaking up when you think that an unsafe situaton may be in play.

As a pilot of tailwheel aircraft with very limited forward visibility for the last 600or so hours, I find it preferable to make continuous shallow S-turns while taxiing to see where I’m going and thus avoid clobbering someone on a reciprocal heading….Frankly, I consider taxiing blind to be a poorer form of airmanship than weaving either side of a centreline.

Yes Machii jets had low melting point (lead I think) plugs in the wheel rims, so overheating brakes would cause tyres to deflate, (melted plugs) rather than the tyre to melt/explode, far more dangerous. Aquaplaning in the Machii was unpleasant as you would use differential braking to steer, when rudder effectiveness had dropped off. But that would take some pretty deep water on the runway. There was a Utube clip of some interesting experiments done by NASA, running a Boeing 737 nose gear, in a concrete trough with different speeds and water depths. once up and aquaplaning, the wheel actually comes to a complete stop, as shown by the high speed camera. This leads to the water under the tyre turning to steam and burning the tyre. The Lear jet used engine bleed air to rotate the front wheel, as a still standing wheel would generate a bigger splash touching down, sending water right into the engine intakes. Some nose wheel tyres will have a ridge on the tyre wall, to deflect water. In Oman I noticed the Hawks would thump it down on the runway, a carrier type landings. I asked, and was told a soft gradual touchdown leading to lots of impressive looking smoke and drama as the wheel spun up, greatly increased their tyre wear. Made sense.

I did England to Australia in 1990 in a Cessna 170 - VFR, no GPS, ADF died crossing the English Channel, 2 x VOR of limited use / reliability. ONC's had some interesting omissions, lots of military airspace in some countries, Gulf War still part of daily conversation. The same trip in a fast single, auto pilot, IFR etc would have been comparatively relaxing - CIR recommended if you are planning to do it - I had one. Lots of controlled airspace and ATC with poor English - probably much better now I expect. Most useful tip I got beforehand - if you need to ditch during a water crossing "if it's not tied to you you don't have it" - my marine EPIRB was a whopper compared to today's models (it's a along way across the Med leg and not as warm as the Timor one)

The wizz wheel (computer) for pilots is like trigonometry tables for high school & uni students, know that they exist & can be found in a museum, the world has moved on.

You guys are overthinking it. I'm not talking about buying anything. How do YOU guys find out about stuff you are interested in? Do you go to the corner store and buy an issue of Womans Weekly? Right now, pretend that you have never heard of Peugot, and you want to find out more about Peugot. So go on, type 'peugot' into your search engine. Anyway, I think they may have finally googled it, and despite all your fears, the guy didn't end up sending $10,000 worth of travellers cheques to Prince Mubumbo in Nigeria, but instead learnt about my propeller. My plane now has a Permit to Fly Test Certificate 🙂

The sad part is with these types of accidents is that it’s totally unnecessary to die this way! Discipline I find is hugely lacking in a lot of Pvt drivers, some simply have no idea, some don’t care and some shouldn’t be in charge of a lawn mower!

Am I missing something. Isn't it a very good idea to verify stall speeds on a newly purchased aircraft.

People here are trying to help you but instead you get all defensive and start throwing back abuse. I have reluctantly corrected your misinformation several times including going to great lengths to pull out information which I have forwarded that completely negates what you have said. I don't do it to belittle you, I don't even know you, I do it to try and keep other aviators safe. ARO went to the trouble of looking at the covering system website, that took a lot of time and effort to reply to you. What information he found directly from the website is different to what you have been saying and he has pointed it out. There is no need to go ballistic at him. If a product is made by a manufacturer and it has installation instructions then you are required to follow those instructions for your aircraft to remain airworthy. You as an individual do not have the skills or experience to decide otherwise. If the manufacturer declares a 10 year inspection then you have to comply with those instructions for your aircraft to remain airworthy. All of your excuses in different directions do nothing for your credibility as an aviator, in fact they do the opposite and show just how inexperienced and lacking knowledge about aviation really is. I was studying yesterday for my beyond visual line of sight drone course and I must pull up the notes that came from the human factors. There were 4 types of conditions that would affect pilots and you are definitely number one. That was the pilot who said they knew everything, they had survived so far, they were better than everybody else, they didn't need anybody telling them what to do, and the rules don't apply. When we were going through the human factors training it made me directly think of you at the time. Just saying.

OK update on my initial post. I completed the BFR yesterday (and it is called BFR on my RAAus app at least) with Adam from Kyneton, Victoria (YKTN). Thanks for the tip off @pmccarthy We did all the usual, stalls, Practice Forced Landing, and navigated to an impromptu and unfamiliar airfield (Maryborough YMBU) which was 37 NM away. I keyed it into my panel-mounted Garmin 296, iPad and bugged the heading. As luck would have it I lost GPS signal about 15 NM before Maryborough but with the iPad, heading and trusty paper map meant there was no issue. Eventually, GPS came back 5 minutes later. I got to ask Adam a few questions about flying that I hadn't fully resolved in my own mind (exact ruling on the distance flying before a flightplan is required), got some advice about choosing runways where there is nil wind and cross runways, and a few other comments. The entire process took 1.5 hours and I felt the money was well spent on relevant content. Adam is a super nice guy and an experienced CFI. Highly recommend him for your next BFR in Victoria. He flys Friday - Sunday's. If you need his mobile number PM me.

Well I finally have my latest Sportpilot & in general agree with Skippy. Apart from some basic stuff from RAA the rest is pretty boring. There is an emphasis on young pilots of which there are very few and their training or aviation journey and there are no technical articles for those of us who have built aircraft or enjoy this stuff. The round the world article is about a flight 9 years ago and the next article about a flight that hasn't happened yet after 16,000 hours of build time. The fuel article is just poor. 95 & 98 RON fuels do not contain Ethanol but the regulations allow up to 1% to account for cross contamination at refueling stations & that makes no appreciable difference. I have used 95 & 98 RON automotive fuel (it isn't called Mogas) in my Jabiru 3300 since new with not a single problem in over 400 hours. A number of other operators at our airfield finally switched after using Avgas for years enduring plug fouling and other issues with deposits. I filter my fuel through a Mr Funnel & have never detected water & with Vinyl Ester tanks no condensation either. The down side is the smell which does penetrate Vinyl Ester walls so when I open the cockpit I smell petrol. This is because the light components (toluene, benzine, n-hexane etc) which evaporate off first) It goes away quickly with air circulation but the fuel does not last as long as Avgas. That doesn't matter as a small amount of fresh fuel on top of what is in the tank will normalise it. I developed Shingles in early August & didn't fly for 3 months. I put 5 litres of fresh fuel on top of 35 litres of old & it started & ran perfectly after a single crank. As for articles I agree this would be helpful. I have responded to articles through letters to the editor & the last about ADSB & Skyecho 2 when it was claimed ATC cannot see you. That was false but the response was it wasn't what the editor was told so no checking or retraction.

I totally agree. I emailed them twice about how bad the magazine is. I even mentioned about cheaper membership to not have the magazine supplied. Never heard from them. Sometimes I buy the Australian flying magazine. It is in a format like the old RAA magazine used to be. The one now, is all shiny glossy crap.

With a drive through for his mobility scooter🛵🤪

Buying 80kg of popping corn and sea salt first thing tomorrow morning...

Oh yeah should have added that there are some practical limitations as to how you would balance such a config. The accelerometer has to sense at the point where the extension is bolted to the gearbox/direct drive shaft and then at the opposite end of the shaft either at the front of the prop, or if it was a direct drive engine at the rear of the engine. If there is a reduction gearbox involved then the rear of the engine is not a viable measurement point. In such a case you may be better removing the extension and prop and balancing on a purpose built balancing rig..... that'll be cheap to create and be done in an afternoon....not!! Also worth noting that you need to do dynamic balances at the rotational speed you intend for the device to work at....so a balancing rig will likely need the same input power as your engine is capable of producing but be direct drive and not through a gearbox...at least not where the accelerometer measurements are taken.... alternatively balance the prop extension on its own using a 2 plane balance at the cruise RPM you want and the prop separately and hope that mating them together maintains the extension shaft balance. Ive done lots of 2 plane balances over the years, so much so that we provided balancing to other users of big rotating devices....There's defiantly science involved...lots...and to many mechanics and owners of machines it was all simply magic!!!! one day a machine might take 2 hours to balance...teh next day a similar machine might take a day and a half...... why??? magic!!!

The latest Rotax SB says 98 is now the minimun to be used for all 912 915 and 916 engines

Hi guys, I just bought some narrow PTFE tube and attached a section with copper wiring to my dipstick. Works a treat - so easy to see the fuel level now, and it stays static in the tube until I take my finger off the end. Cheers, Neil

For me Airpersonship is about operating in a way that will minimize the chance of my aircraft being involved in a fatal accident. Taxiing on or off the centre line is irrelevant, instructors should focus on the things that matter, hopefully they read accident reports and actually know what they are and pass that wisdom on to the new pilots.

At the same airfield I have encountered (several times) other aircraft taxiing towards me on a runway and deciding to keep to their left. Arguing with me on the radio telling me I should keep to the left rather than to the right. I wonder what they were told about the rules of taxiing. Car drivers.

Just came across this interesting old video. Not sure if it's the same as the one in the original post that has been removed.

I hate the way our laws have been brutalised so that somebody has to always be liable for things that go wrong. We all know he made a mistake and followed it up with some bad decisions but he's hardly likely to go out and repeat it.

A spin at low height is not recoverable so PREVENTION would be the best course.. With stalls, unload the wings or add full power. if required. Adding drag in any low speed situation requires an increased RoD or added power to compensate. You anticipate this, not wait for the speed to drop. It's energy management 101. Planes that are docile are not so docile when heavy loaded, have a rearward CofG or in a density Altitude limiting situation. Ground effect is your friend if you want to stay in the Air and want to increase speed in a tight go around. Nev

As CASA recommends, flight schools should choose appropriate types for stall training & spin prevention training. Seems to me that many do not and skip many of the required stall exercises. Some types are prohibited from doing accelerated stalls (for a reason). I disagree. The buzzword these days is UPRT, Upset Prevention and Recovery Training with the emphasis on Prevention. Some schools have just rebadged their UA courses as UPRT so little or no Prevention training. Like the experienced Pitts instructor killed with a student in Cessna 150 spin training who, according to the ATSB report, did not know the correct technique for the 150. Perhaps a separate discussion. Aerobatic training is not UPRT, it doesn't help much with avoiding LOC-I accidents. So, he would've known how to recover from a spin in a Pitts. I do spin endorsements for instructor trainees then emphasise that the technique I taught them only applies to the type that we did the training in, and they should read the POH for the type they will be instructing in. Then one needs enough height to recover hence the focus on prevention in UPRT.

I tell you what Mate, owning a Chinese Law Firm please introduce the client suffering from 'loss of income' due to the "illegal copy", and I'll pay you a handsome introduction fee after the case is won and royalties recovered. But since you're full of nonsense, that's not going to happen, and yes, you most certainly can sue the azz off IPR thieves here, though the information you have gained at that amazing source of information, the lunchroom table at work, probably leads you to not believing that ..... One of the reasons I don't post much any more is the bigotry found anytime "China" is mentioned, from people who's experience is buying cheap rubbish that's sourced by an Australian, specced by an Australian, sold in an Australian owned shop by an Australian seeking maximum profit, and purchased by an Australian with deep pockets and very short arms, but when it breaks, it's "China's fault!". The irony is that Chinese people in China won't buy that rubbish, but facts don't seem to matter much to people who like to pretend they know something about China. Living here in China for 20 years (and not far from Zongshen), one thing I know, China can make engines, especially small engines. You guys have no idea what I witness daily with overloaded 1000cc mini vans and utes having the life revved out of them nonstop keeping up with traffic and up hills, also thousands of undergeared 200cc 3 wheel utility motorbikes coming past flat out at 40kmh with a million revs screaming their heads off. Then there's the motorcycles, usually 150cc which Zongsen is one of the biggest manufacturers in the world of, same story, 40 to 50 kmh screaming their guts out by riders with zero mechanical sympathy. After 20 years here, I know where China's product's faults lay, and engines are certainly not included in that list, and they build engines that are the equal to any engine in the world, and in some cases, factually proven to be better.

You need to redo your calculations using CAS. In the absence of info published for that aircraft I suggest you use my estimated stall speed flaps up of 58 kts CAS. If you are flying it then do the conversion back to IAS, the number you see on the ASI, for your approach speed. If you are comparing it with GS data then continue to use CAS/TAS.