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This thread has nothing to do with flying, I suggest you take it further in the Off Topic site...thread closed

Every year I wish all recreational aviators a very merry Christmas and a fantastic New Year and add a video that I ask everyone here to watch...PLEASE PLEASE don't drink and drive this Christmas, be around for you to enjoy your Christmas with your loved ones and NOT a road statistic. Turn the volume up LOAD

A basic migration test to XF has been done and it seems to be working ok. You can see it, and even login to it, at www.recfly.com.au The XF version I used has some modifications that I have done to it other than that the actual migration, as I said is only basic which I needed to do to check for any major issues...there was none, but some minor ones like the smilies which I will work on. I have also sent emails off to the guy who will set the new server up and I am waiting for the server company to get back to me with hopefully a slight discount...so all looking good for the next 24 to 48hrs

As of today this whole thing has become SERIOUSLY URGENT. IPS are about to release a security update and the only way I can get it is to pay the license update...I know, it is extremely wrong of a software company to force you to update your license to get a security update in the version that you have paid for and are using...this is one of the things that is wrong with IPS. I have 48hrs now to make a decision on IPS or XF

An update on my current thinking and research I have done. The hosting cost (server cost) can be reduced, there is a question on software, I need to get out to all the old site users to remind them the site still exists and there is a question on advertising... Server (hosting) Currently our server is a dedicated server in France. It is bare bones in terms of that only an experience server administrator can manage, it doesn't have a control panel that I know how to use. It is spec'd at: CPU: E3-1240 V6 @ 3.7Ghz Memory: 64GB DDR 4 Disk Set: 3 x 500GB (SSD) Raid 5 IP's: 1 usable ip Premium traffic 300mbs ! Price: 89€ Server Admin Support: 50€ No control panel Total: 139€ at say 0.58c = $240AUD Option 2: A new server based in LA, West Coast USA that is much faster than current server, shorter distance to Australia, faster to a potential US audience and has a control panel so I can do basic maintenance. This is a very high quality and faster server than we have now however as this server is on special, anything cheaper is far inferior to what we have now. It is spec'd at: CPU: Intel’s Fastest Xeon E, 2288G 8 Core 3.8Ghz >20,000 Passmark Memory: 64GB DDR4 ECC Ram Disk Set: 1.2TB NVMe IP's: /29 5x usable ip's 100Tb over 1gbps connection Price: $150USD No server admin support DirectAdmin Control Panel Total: say $150USD at say 0.68c = $220AUD *The small reduction in monthly cost is used up in the first year by initial setup costs Option 3: Australian based servers are a lot more expensive for what you get but minimises the latency to Australian users but increases the latency to international visitors resulting in a very much less appealing resource for them and the site is downgraded by the Google Search Engine. Location: Sydney CPU: E5-2670 V1 Memory: 32GB Disk Set: 2 x 480GB (SSD) IP's: 1 usable ip Data: 7TB Price: $210AUD No server admin support DirectAdmin Control Panel *The small reduction in monthly cost is used up in the first year by initial setup costs. This server is spec'd lower than our current server and really only good for Australian users. My suggestion is Option 2 as I believe user increase may happen if the site is fast to suit potential US users, it has a control panel so I can do general maintenance and manage the sites better plus it has the latest technology Software I have swapped and changed between XF and IPS too many times trying to give users far more features which has damaged the user base however the users don't seem to need, or want so many features however I do need to differentiate the site from Facebook i.e. make the site a resource or reference for information. Option 1: IPS (as in now) Cost: $400 a year Functionality: Extensive with the ability to create any type of section Support: Best with Ahmed who is an IPS developer and reasonably priced User Friendly: Average as with the ability to create anything the site becomes bloated and not user friendly Option 2: XF Cost: $200 a year Functionality: Limited to XF core functionality and addons developed by 3rd party vendors Support: Average with the XF support forums however I know how to do general development in the XF coding User Friendly: Very good with much easier to use functions and features for all level of users My suggestion is Option 2 as IPS is far more expensive as in double the price of XF, users can use the features of XF in a more friendly manner, XF has the ability to check the existence of email addresses before sending out emails which will enable mail outs to old users to try and get them back to the site and with the addons most of the important user functions (sections) of the current site are available. The graph also showed a steady increase in the user base whilst on XF but dropped considerably and stayed stagnant after we went to IPS Mail Outs If we go for XF we can send out an email to all the previous users to advise the site is still going and has xyz available to them. If we stay with IPS I would need to find (purchase) software, if it is available, to ascertain if the email addresses used by old users still exist. My suggestion is to use XF to do these mail outs Advertising Advertising will be available to anyone that wants to have a display advert in the right column on most pages of the site. I will begin with a small token payment. I will also amend the No Advertising rule in the site rules to advertisements can be made in specific areas such as user signatures and other specific sections of the site in a manner to help site users. I will also add Google Adsense to the right column. Any return gained from advertising will be used to promote the site on Facebook and Google pages On a final note I think we need to find some kind of tangible incentive for users to get their friends and associates into using the site

I had adsense a few years back and you get very little from it, about $100 every 3 to 4 months. The best option is actual sponsors with a display advert in the right column at say $50 to $75 a month and if you could get 5 of them it would pay the site financial cost. IPS has the management of them built in whilst in XF there is an addon that provides for the management of them

Over the years I have probably put around $50,000 to $60,000 raw cash into providing this resource for ALL recreational aviators in the hope that it helps to keep them safer and reduces the number of silly mistakes that are made that causes injury or even death to our fellow flyers simply through the exchange of helpful information between us all. Add to that I believe I have put in more hours of every day of every year than the entire RAAus board combined to help recreational aviators. I became an RAAus board member to expose all the underhand activities towards recreational aviators and then later was thrown out of the RAAus, legal action taken against me, aircraft distributor tried extortion against me, and so much more of all these kind of activities taken against me for having this site/resource. I have given recreational aviators a voice over all these years much to RAAus's disgust so you can forget RAAus's support in any way although I don't comment on them any more, and on the other side of the coin I have been dealt extreme prejudice against me by some site users for simply being human who just like them and everyone else has good days, bad days, can make good decisions and bad decisions all in just trying to help everyone in the MOST NICE AND FRIENDLY way and try to do what I could to keep recreational aviators safe in an activity that can at times be dangerous in a happy environment. I can only help people if there are people to help...and that is the crux of the current issue. Facebook costs nothing and takes just about nothing to manage so the effort a person needs to devote to other recreational aviators is negligible compared to here but as we know with Facebook you get very little in return compared to the potential you could get here...but only if there are people to give it. For those that were here at the beginning would remember me saying that a person will never ever have to pay to get help from here so any form of paid subscription to access valuable information to help them is strictly not endorsed by me...First Class Member is a donation and in return you not only help the site to continue but you also get extra site functionality not extra information that will help you to fly safer as that must be available to everyone, however I do truly thank those that help the site by way of their small donation, it is greatly appreciated. The simple question that needs an answer amongst all of this is, as I said, I can only help people if there are people to help so how do we do that, we will probably never know if a person has read something here from another user that prevents injury to themselves or damage to their aircraft but at least the information is here and many many recreational aviators are also here helping each other to do that. If the site does not achieve this then the financial cost and dedicated hours should be stopped...I hope not!

Thanks DJ...so in context of the site what would you do for: unload - ??? power off - ??? roll level - ??? pull out - ??? this could be really helpful

The difference between the software I.e. IPS vs XF is IPS around $400 per year and XF around $200 per year. Hosting is around $250 per month.

The basic financial cost is around $3,500 a year for just the current hosting and license costs

Ok, if I save dollars and use the XF site software it will mean yet another change which could see the loss of even more users but other users may be more comfortable with it. I spent a few days developing what an XF site would look like just in terms of what we have now and we get: IPS as Now XF Forums Same Forums but a lot simpler search and post creation Groups - I wanted to get flying clubs and schools to create a presence here by them creating their own group Groups - but with less functionality so may not be comprehensive enough for clubs and schools to want to create their own group Blogs - not really used but had hoped kit builders would create a blog on their build No Blog Alternative Events - has multi calendars and RSVP options 3rd Party Calendar addon that costs $60USD Media - Gallery Included as a single solution for both pictures and videos which can be separated by categories Media - Videos as above Articles 3rd Party Articles addon (currently have) Aviation Accident Articles Would need to be included in the Articles 3rd party addon as a category (if we still wish to make them separate) Resources - Downloads Included in XF which can also accommodate Tools and Calculators Resources - Tools and Calculators as above Resources - Tutorials Would need to be included in the Articles 3rd party addon as separate categories Quizzes (not yet developed) No Quizzes alternative Maps No Maps alternative Aircraft 3rd Party Articles addon (currently have) called Showcase People (not yet developed) No People alternative although could be again be included as a category in the 3rd party Articles addon Pilot Supplies Shop (IPS has an integrated (including user login) shopping cart system that was planned to replace the Clear Prop site) Would need to keep the non integrated Clear Prop site Classifieds No Classifieds alternative - could use a forum or get one developed Suppliers No Suppliers alternative Members Members but without daily champion Off Topic - either integrated (with filters) or separate site Off Topic - either integrated (with filters) or separate site Whats New - all of site integrated together in the one page Whats New - uses separate Whats New pages for each area of the site i.e. not all integrated into 1 page Overall XF would be easier for the user but is limited in future feature development (example the many different areas that would need to use categories within the one single Articles section XF is cheaper in yearly license and 3rd party addon fees There are many other little features that are different between the two solutions and far too many to list here but those that were using the site prior to going to IPS would probably know them

G'Day

Thanks Mate, problem is I am not a salesman

It's a pity that with the hundreds of users that come here these are the only replies to help the site: The question The answers

I could manually add the view count totals if it is the wish of users to go down that path

Ok, as a site stakeholder i.e. YOU, do you want me to: 1. Pay for another year of the IPS license ($400) OR use the Xenforo license which is already paid up? 2. Migrate Whats Up Australia into Recreational Flying OR leave it separate? 3. Run a donation campaign OR find someone who will get sponsors for advertising on the site to pay for Facebook and Google advertising? Come on...what say you??????????????????????????

Well everyone, we need to get this sorted now as the IPS software license has expired and needs to be renewed: I am also exploring ways to email all users that have not been to the site for some time however that is proving difficult with so many invalid email addresses so when an ISP receives a couple of emails to invalid email addresses they stop emails going to valid ones. Example of the bounced back messages I get from emails sent to users with an isp after a couple of invalid addresses are: [email protected] SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection: host "ipmailmx.internode.on.net" [192.231.203.138]: 550 Too many invalid recipients and that is even just sending out emails in batches of only 100 So software and contacting older users???

A couple of people have said this so what I would really really like to know is what is not liked, what was it about the old software (Xenforo v2) that was better than this IPS software like is it the user functionality, the look and feel of the site i.e. cosmetics etc. I can see with the IPS software, Groups, Blogs, Suppliers and People are not used, Resources and Gallery are also no longer used like they were before but with IPS it was easy to bring you Classifieds, Articles and different article sections as well like reading articles, tutorials, aircraft, etc

On many of the pages you will see a Site Donation box

Sorry I haven't fixed the Whats New on WUA as I am still working on importing the site back into a Off Topic section here

Many years ago the main forum site software that was used was by a company called vBulletin. In recent years vBulletin has dramatically declined and now the front 2 runners are Xenforo, the site software we switched to from vBulletin nealy 10 years ago, and the other is IPS (Invision Power Services) which is the main forum software we are using today. However along with IPS we also use many different 3rd party applications on the site that are developed to work with IPS. Each solution (i.e. vBulletin, Xenforo (XF) and Invision (IPS)) has their own idiosyncrasies, features within each component and user functions. Xenforo is very much forum centric with a Gallery and Downloads sections as well whilst IPS is a total site solution with not only Forums, Gallery and Downloads but also Groups, Blogs, Events and the ability to create many other different sections.

So what you are saying is that the XF software was better for a conversation site? What is also being said in this thread is the site needs more promotion, which we all know costs money over and above the software licenses and monthly hosting costs. Plus many of those still on the site don't use Facebook Lastly, you are saying we need to find out why users have left the site AND/OR try and get them back BUT what about antagonistic posts also coming back which can push others away

What ads are appearing, I can't see any unless you are referring to the Classifieds section

That was when we moved to IPS So how do we fix this? It is a damned if you do and damned if you don't although one thing I have noticed is that the moderators don't have to do anything any more (except for the odd spam)

For those that don't know, this site has been going for nearly 19 years now. For nearly 19 years I have dedicated myself to helping recreational aviators to stay safe, learn from each other's experiences and help with their aircraft maintenance. I went to a software platform that induced user involvement to help each other. I then changed to a complete web site solution that provided so much more as a service to recreational aviators but the site was impacted... Well, after moving to that new software platform I was told to give it time and my site would recover, "it will take 6-9 months" and other comforting statements that my site will get back to what it was. In its prime it was getting between 2,500 and 3,000 unique visitors per day but then came a competitor using Facebook for the quick and easy posting so I went full on site to offer more than just the interactive forum of facebook. To do this I needed a full blown web site software solution which IPS is compared to the previous platform of Xenforo. I then swapped back and forth panicking due to the drop of user numbers but eventually stuck with IPS as a full site solution. Give it time they said, well here it is after 6 months and still completely flat, no gradual increase, now sudden lift in numbers, the site has so much more now with the IPS database feature and many addons like Classifieds etc. How much more time does one have to give? If there was a slow and gradual increase I would be happy and go along with "Give it time" but I no longer have faith in either IPS OR Xenforo compared to the all mighty, all conquering Facebook. The stupid thing is this site offers so much more, so much that Facebook could never provide but here we are, the software license now needs renewing, hosting costs $250 a month and I am working on the site every single day trying to improve it. What am I missing? What have I done wrong? Is there a solution that I can do to help recreational aviators more in giving them a way that they can learn and help each other, keep each other safe and have fun?...tell me, please, be brutal if you need to be