Rapture

There has been discussion on this forum previously about repowering the Jabiru airframe with Rotax engines. The general consensus is that the Jabiru is an excellent airframe. However, some owners or potential owners have reservations about Jabiru engines but support the reliability of Rotax engines. Indeed, several members of the forum have already repowered their J160c or J230/J430 with the Rotax 912/914 engines. The reports on this forum from the owners of these Rotax powered Jabirus indicate that the conversions have been a success and the owners have been happy with their decisions to repower their airframes. Performance of the aircraft appears to be similar or better than the when fitted with the Jabiru engine. As many of you will be aware, the Zonsen Aero engine has striking similarities to the equivalent Rotax engine, but has not yet had enough market penetration to build up any sort of reputation for either reliability or support. While over 400 predominantly 100hp Zonsen engines have been sold into Europe, it is still a relatively new product in the US and Australia. Zonsen offers products equivalent to the Rotax range, so 80/100/115/145hp, both carbureted and fuel injected/turbocharged. Zonsen also has their own 109hp engine that fits between the Rotax 912 and 914 models. Enquiries already made to Rapture Aviation about the Zonsen range of engines indicates that there is interest in putting Zonsen engines into Jabiru airframes as the Zonsen engine will offer a savings over the equivalent Rotax product, albeit without the proven track record of Rotax. This thread is really a bit of a poll to determine what the preferred powerplant would be for the respective Jabiru models, if an owner were to consider a Zonsen engine to replace their Jabiru engine. The aircraft models that I seek opinions on are: J160c J170 J230 J430 and the engine options would be: 80hp carbureted 100hp carbureted or fuel injected (FI) 109hp carbureted or FI 115hp turbocharged 145hp carbureted and turbocharged 145hp FI and turbocharged For those that own a Jabiru or are considering owning one, I’d appreciate your opinion on which powerplant would be the best suited or most attractive option for your airframe and if possible, why that would be your engine of choice. One of the benefits that I see in a Zonsen retrofit for the J230/J430 aircraft is that when fitted with the 145hp turbocharged engine, there is not only 25hp more for takeoff, there is also 137hp cruise power available at 10,000’, 17hp more that the Jab3300 can make at sea level and full power. At the rough air limiting indicated airspeed of 112 knots at 10,000’, that equates to a 130ktas cruise for the aircraft. In still air, a 140ktas cruise speed at 10,000’ could potentially be comfortably achieved. With the FI engine, there is no carburetor heat needed and with the liquid cooling, there are no shock cooling concerns to think about. This sort of performance for a J230/J430 would help make it a better cross country aircraft. Handing over to the viewers for your feedback and opinions.

We have our first engine about to be shipped from the factory and delivery is anticipated late December/early January. If anyone is in the market for a new Rotax 912UL or 912ULS and fancies additional hp, this 109hp Zonsen CA510 engine will be available for sale. The final price will be advised once it has been delivered to our facility in Adelaide, but you could expect a saving over the lower powered 912ULS. If you might be interested in this engine, please pm me or make an enquiry through Rapture's website enquiry form. If you have a neat aircraft that would be a good showcase for the engine, we will consider sweetening the deal if you display your aircraft in the Rapture display at Ausfly 2025 (14/15 March at Wentworth) and possibly also at Avalon 2025 (25-30 March). If a customer doesn't take it, it will be going straight into one of our company aircraft that we can demonstrate. Cheers, Dave

REQUEST TO THREAD PARTICIPANTS! Could we please keep this thread on topic? The quality of Chinese products in general, whether good or bad bear no relationship to the quality of Zonsen engines. Please could we have no further mention about Chinese products in general. This thread is specifically about the Zonsen Aero engines. If you have first hand knowledge about these engines then please contribute. If you have a direct statement from someone that has first hand knowledge or experience with these engines then please contribute. Please, no politics and no bashing of other thread participants. If someone is out of order, I will ask the Admins to address it, if they haven’t already picked it up. I have counted over 30 posts in this thread that have no relevance to Zonsen engines. As I have said before, we want to make this thread one where folks can go to find useful information. Off topic chats are not useful and are an unwanted distraction. Let’s try and build this thread as a receptacle for direct knowledge about the Zonsen Aero engines. Even as the distributor, I don’t care whether the feedback is good or bad about the engines, a lot can be learned and addressed from folks problems with a product or product support that can go towards addressing the issues to make a better product, with better product support. SO PLEASE, CAN WE STOP WITH THE OFF TOPIC DISCUSSIONS AND IRRELEVANT POSTS? Thanks, Dave

We are currently obtaining a full spare parts list with prices from Zonsen. I’ll find out and PM you.

Rapture Aviation (me and my partner) is the Australian dealer for Zonsen. I think Skippy is addressing his enquiry to me.

Guys, I’d also beg you to refrain from off-topic discussions on this thread. I’m hoping that it can build to a useful and informative thread where folks can come to learn about these engines and our aircraft where the information, either good or bad can be found without having to troll through irrelevant comments. Thanks.

Thanks Nev. I have been advised by the Zonsen rep previously that their parts will fit the equivalent Rotax engine so they can be considered an aftermarket part for the Rotax engine. I will get written confirmation from Zonsen on this matter. I’ll post their response once I have it. If the information is correct and you need any parts such as rubbers, please send a message through the contact form on our website listing the Rotax part numbers and we will seek the costing and delivery time for the equivalent Rotax part.

That is for sure!

On the contrary, and I have this directly from the former CEO of Insitu, the largest drone manufacturer in the world, their biggest problem was the reliability of the powerplants in their drones. They have a $1m+ drone powered by a $50k engine. They needed the drones to be in the air continuously over the battlefields and any engine failure in ostensibly a cheap engine results in a loss of a very expensive drone and the loss of capability until another could get on station. Rotax pulled out of at least one drone market (the Bayraktar TB2 from Turkey, a big seller after the Ukraine conflict) to be replaced by someone. So someone with a Rotax type engine is now filling that space. Hours will be built rapidly and reliability will be put to the test for whatever engine this Rotax replacement might be…

Hopefully now corrected thanks Ian. Please PM me if there is anything else I need to do.

My sincere apologies Ian. I didn’t intend to break any rules. Please let me address it as you have suggested. Please PM me to discuss if I haven’t addressed it in what you consider to be a fair manner. I’d like you on-side, not off-side!

There are several good videos that have been put out by the South African distributor that explain the product range and provide some more details about the engines.

For clarity and I thought it was clear in my statement, Zonsen confirmed that the engine would physically fit on the equivalent Rotax engine mounts. I made no reference to the legality of replacing a Rotax with a Zonsen. The aircraft owner will need to ascertain that element of a potential engine swap/replacement/installation. That said, we will have no problem expressing an opinion about whether the Zonsen can be legally installed in the customers experimental/LSA/95.55 etc. That is a fairly straightforward question with back and white answers thanks to the regulatory framework.

I have confirmed that the TBO is 2,000 hours/15 calendar years, the same as Rotax. Also, I've had a few enquiries already about it being a direct drop-in replacement for the equivalent Rotax and the answer from Zonsen is yes, it will drop onto the same mounting frame as the Rotax.

All the above points and opinions have been noted. They are no different from what we (Rapture Aviation) elocuted to the Zonsen team throughout our negotiations with them for the distributorship. Zonsen are intimately aware of all these issues as well because they introduced their first aero engine product into Europe in 2019 and expanded their worldwide markets significantly in 2022. They have seen first-hand how difficult it is to break into new markets when coming up against the likes of Rotax and their embedded solid reputation. However, Zonsen is starting to make inroads as more engines get into aircraft and reliability and support are put to the test. The number of engines is still low, as are the hours, but they are building all the time. One element I discussed with Zonsen when I visited their factory was around warranty claims. There have been very few and no significant claims that I was advised of. What we intend to do is to absolutely cane a couple of engines (as suggested above, the likely 2 most desirable models) here in Australia to do our own in-the-field testing to support that which has been done at the factory and by other dealers. Of course, we will provide feedback on that to the manufacturer to assist them with product improvement which from my interaction with them is something that is important to them. For those that reach out to Rapture, we may well need to seek the response to some questions from the manufacturer as we do not have all the answers. This knowledge will come through experience with the product. We will certainly do our best at our end from the product support perspective. One question from an earlier post was about prices. With our first engine currently being delivered, we need to be absolutely certain about importation costs before we will finalise the price point and publish prices. Yes, the prices will be better than the equivalent Rotax but how much better will be determined shortly. If you might be interested to consider a Zonsen engine, please visit our website (www.raptureaviation.com) and make an enquiry through our contact form.