FlyingVizsla

A warm welcome to you too! Just love the story! Looking forward to more to come, the PPL, the plane .... Sue

ELAAA still don't have any information, despite a statement on Facebook that it was coming 7th Oct. The only info I have received from them is that they will cover my GA aircraft with a VH rego (VH-numbers) and maybe our 95-10 but nothing of any substance beyond that - eg what licence, assessments, tech manual etc. My concern for years, when people talk about having a separate "minimal aircraft" group is the cost of belonging to so many to fly similar aircraft. I think ELAAA is aiming to be 'everything' for a fee. I am also concerned about jumping out of the pan and into the fire. Going under another organisation may mean it is hard to go back, particularly a VH aircraft.

Welcome Richard! Retire!! What's that? Husband retired at 74 and now has 400 years of work ahead of him, although we are now finding more time for flying. He also says he "has one more plane" in him and it has been about 10 years since he finished building the last one. Keep active, keep learning. Sue

The heading above those figures is "Information about Pilots Involved in Fatal Accidents" The fatalities (on average) had 8 years membership, 1,780 hours flying time and 60 years old. That tells me (on average) it is not low time, recently qualified, young blokes that are cashing in their chips. As the hours are above average - perhaps there was one or two high hour pilots - eg done 10,000 flying for the RAAF or airlines before AUF/RAA?

Welcome rmorton, There are lots of Savannah build threads and advice here! The Sav is popular in Australia. Sue

Mr FV was working on Fraser Island in the 1960's when the strip was built - he took the following photos. He didn't do the blade work, but was very impressed with the standard. Apologies for the dirt on the slides - I copied everything quickly with the intention of going back to significant slides and recopying with colour adjustments etc. Never happened.

From AOPA Australia - petition extended to 30 Oct 2016. Act NOW. Copied from email:- ------- CLASS 2 REFORM A STEP CLOSER TO REALITY. Valued AOPA Members & Industry Supporters, Class 2 private pilot medical certification reform is now a step closer, following a meeting between the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) on 5th October 2016. The safety regulator has confirmed to AOPA and SAAA that it will move to public consultation for Class 2 reform before the close of the year, with a view towards regulatory introduction by March of 2017. Mr Rob Walker, Industry Stakeholder Group Manager CASA, went on the record to state that the AOPA and SAAA call for reform had been clearly heard from within the regulator and that CASA was now working to see Class 2 reform delivered as soon as possible. AOPA and SAAA reinforced that over the last 10 years, some 8,000+ general aviation pilots have exited Australia’s aviation industry (a 34% decline) and that the large reduction in pilots flying was contributing to large declines in Australia’s general aviation economy. Making clear that the AOPA proposed policy on Class 2 private pilot medical certification aims to reconnect thousands of general aviation pilots with flying, the policy is supported by moves by the US FAA, UK CAA and NZ CAA, highlighting that there is no safety case to be made by the regulator for continuing to unfairly discriminate and prematurely ground pilots based. Now that the regulator has committed to moving forward with public consultation, the challenge will be to keep CASA on track and to ensure that the Class 2 reform is not turned into an unusable or ineffective regulation. Very shortly the Australian aviation industry will have the opportunity to respond directly on Class 2 reform, both the AOPA and SAAA will be working hard to encourage the industry to do so en-masse and will make available resources to help individuals do so in the coming weeks. In the meantime our associations are continuing the push and are determined to see Class 2 reform a reality. Best regards, BENJAMIN MORGAN Executive Director - Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association AOPA Petition - Momentum Builds Momentum and responses to the AOPA proposed policy on Class 2 reform has been enormous with petition documents received from all corners of the country, clearly demonstrating the broad and universal support for this vital reform. Petition Deadline Extended to 30th October 2016 AOPA have extended the deadline for petition responses to 30th October 2016, giving the aviation community another two weeks to submit their support. If you have not already taken the time to make a submission, please download the documents attached and send them in! AOPA and the SAAA are encouraging as many industry participants as possible to send a clear message to the Australian government that it is time for change. Attached to this email are three important documents; 1. AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Reform 2. AOPA Letter to Minister Mr Darren Chester MP 3. AOPA Petition I call on you all to sign the letter of support to the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Mr Darren Chester MP and have your friends and colleagues sign the AOPA petition today! Now is the time for positive change for our industry, stand with AOPA as we work towards kick-starting Australia’s general aviation economy, unlocking our industry’s potential for growth. Best regards, BENJAMIN MORGAN Executive Director - Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association IMPORTANT - Once you have mustered as many signatures as possible, you will need to send the originals to AOPA. We cannot submit anything other than the original documents. Please send the original petition documents to; Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association PO BOX 26, Georges Hall NSW 2198, Australia. NOT A MEMBER OF AOPA? CLICK TO JOIN. AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification. Valued AOPA Members, Over the past year aviation regulators in the United Kingdom (UK), United States of America (US) and New Zealand (NZ) have all moved to reform their medical requirements for Private Pilots License holders, following extensive evidence based assessment and review. These reforms have been heralded by the global aviation community and are expected to breathe essential life back into the general aviation economies of each respective country. AOPA Australia over the past five years has received thousands of telephone calls and emails from private pilots, all calling for broad reform of Australia’s Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification system. Our membership have demonstrated that a high number of Australian private pilots are being subjected to unfair and unreasonable medical assessments by CASA AVMED which has removed fit and healthy pilots from Australia’s general aviation community and subjected thousands of pilots to unnecessary delays and expense regarding medical assessment. In consideration of our membership feedback and moves by international regulators, AOPA Australia has produced a clear Proposed Policy position on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification - to which we have attached to this email and included below. The AOPA proposed policy on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification is important to the future of Australia's general aviation industry and if implemented will serve to reconnect thousands of perfectly healthy pilots who have been unfairly discriminated by the existing CASA AVMED system. This vital reform will dramatically reduce licensing costs to industry and will remove unnecessary layers of bureaucracy and red-tape that have contributed to the serious decline in general aviation pilots in Australia, which based on CASA’s own data amounts to some 8,000+ pilots exiting our industry (see chart below). The AOPA policy will help kick-start and re-invigorate private flying activity within the general aviation industry, which will result in increasing demand for the varying support services whilst creating valuable jobs and opportunities across the country. In the recently published CASA Stakeholder Relationship Health Report (click here to download), the surveyed industry stakeholders made clear their sincere dissatisfaction with regard to both CASA’s decision making and performance. Industry has sent a loud and clear message that we cannot continue with the current system. AOPA understands that its members care deeply about general aviation and are willing to stand up and fight for what matters to them and is now calling on our entire membership to help make our Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification a reality. BE PART OF CHANGE. STEP 1 – Download and review the AOPA Proposed Policy Attached to this email is the AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification, which you can download and review. Should you wish to discuss the policy, please feel free to contact the AOPA offices on (02) 9791 9099 STEP 2 – Download and send a letter of support to the Minister Attached to this email is a letter which you can send to the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, the Hon Darren Chester MP, showcasing your support for the AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification. Be sure to send this letter to as many aviation friends and colleagues as possible! STEP 2 – Muster signatures for the AOPA Petition! Attached to this email is the AOPA Class 2 Private Pilot Medical Certification Petition, which you can download and have your aviation friends and colleagues sign. AOPA is calling on each and every one of our members to download this important petition and to muster as many signatures as possible! Help AOPA and our industry send a clear message to the government. IMPORTANT - Once you have mustered as many signatures as possible, you will need to send the originals to AOPA. We cannot submit anything other than the original documents. Please send the original petition documents to; Attention: Mr Benjamin Morgan Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association PO BOX 26, Georges Hall NSW 2198, Australia. The petition documents must be returned to AOPA in original copy, no later than the 30th October 2016. Once received, AOPA will collate the received Petitions into a master document and present it in person to the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, The Hon Darren Chester MP. This is our opportunity to send a big message, so please ensure you email as many friends and colleagues as possible - we all need each others support on this vital call for reform. AOPA PROPOSED POLICY ON CLASS 2 PRIVATE PILOT MEDICAL CERTIFICATION Issued 23rd August 2016 1. The medical standard for the Class 2 Medical Certificate will be that of an AustRoads Unrestricted Private Drivers Medical with no ROUTINE requirement to attend for medical examinations except in the situations outlined below 2. The pilot will have to make a legally binding statement that they meet this standard once prior to the age of 70 years and every 3 years after the age of 70 3. Any pilot who does not meet this medical standard will be required to apply for their certificate by seeing a DAME. This includes those pilots who hold a Restricted Private Drivers License Medical or those pilots who are currently classified as “renew by CASA only”. The DAME will have the delegation to issue the certificate after due consideration. CASA AVMED would be involved only if the DAME wants backup or support for decision making 4. Applicants with a history of any of the following conditions must apply to a DAME for consideration of their case. They must support their application with records from their GP and/or Specialist. a. Medication for any psychiatric illness b. Bipolar disorder, psychosis or a diagnosis of personality disorder c. Drug abuse or alcohol misuse or addiction (or conviction for drink/drunk driving) d. Medication treatment for angina or heart failure e. Cardiac surgery including cardiac device implantation f. Recurrent fainting or collapse (syncope) g. Unexplained loss of consciousness h. Insulin treatment i. Chronic lung disease with shortness of breath on exertion j. Any neurological condition requiring medication k. Epilepsy l. Significant functional physical disability likely to impair safe operation of normal flight controls 5. It is anticipated that for simple cases properly backed up by specialist reports that the DAME may in consultation with the applicants General Practitioner and/or Specialist be delegated to issue a class 2 certificate for a restricted period of time. If the DAME is not prepared to do this he/she may refer the case to CASA AVMED for full assessment 6. Under the proposed system the onus is on the pilot to report any possible reduction of flying capabilities as a result of medical conditions to their DAME. The DAME can advise the pilot and certify the pilot fit to fly at a later date if he/she is happy with the recovery. If the DAME is unhappy with the situation he/she may refer the matter to CASA AVMED LIMITATIONS - The weight limit will be 2,760 Kg - The number of passengers will be limited to five (5) - Those pilots requiring an instrument rating will need to see a DAME on a regular basis (4 years under 40 and 2 yearly thereafter). The DAME can issue the certificate or refer to AVMED as necessary - Night VFR will be covered under the proposed new system - Those pilots requiring a higher aircraft weight limit or increased number of passengers will need to be seen by a DAME who can issue the certificate or refer to AVMED as they feel necessary. ------- AOPA Letter to Minister.pdf AOPA Petition .pdf AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot.pdf AOPA Letter to Minister.pdf AOPA Petition .pdf AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot.pdf AOPA Letter to Minister.pdf AOPA Petition .pdf AOPA Proposed Policy on Class 2 Private Pilot.pdf

Hello You too! How about a bit more of an intro? Sue

Hi Lizzy, Check out the Australian Women Pilot's Association (AWPA) Australian Women Pilots` Association They have career advice, networking with those already in the industry or training commercial / military pilots, and best of all - there are SCHOLARSHIPS which may suit you. They have conditions ... some are open to men also, some have age, membership or geographic restrictions etc. They range from ultralights to ATPL. Best to read through them. Most close in Jan 2017. Each year there are some under subscribed or not awarded, which is a disappointment. There could be one there for you. The conferences are also well worth attending - different State each year - Victoria's turn April 2017. AWPA also have achievement awards. Enjoy browsing the RecFly forums! There are also great apps, resources & tutorials - free - see the menu to the left (on a PC) Sue

Hi Andy, Warm welcome to the forum! Plenty to keep you busy on here. What do you fly? Regards Sue

I can't see a rush to a new organisation, because the majority are "lazy". It is too easy to just pay the renewal for insurance, stick with your bank, keep shopping at that supermarket, renew the phone contract etc.; even if there is a better deal on offer. My husband was going off about the big 4 banks, when I pointed out that he could very easily take his business to any of the alternatives, but he just keeps dealing with 2 of the four Banks and paying the higher interest, and complaining about the $49 annual fee on a credit card he uses 3 to 4 times a year and 0.004% interest on savings. When it comes to RAA - he "just wants to fly" and can't be bothered. So unless there is a cataclysmic event, guys like him will continue with what they're used to. Unless they can offer something more than CASA in GA registration, then I can't see anything much for me. I just wish they would spell out what they are intending to offer, even if it isn't yet set in cement, so I can start planning, researching, to decide which way to go.

Hi Folks, After much delay, I am ready to start scanning all the old AUF/ RAA magazines up until Sport Pilot started. I have turned over all our sheds, houses, boxes etc and am missing the following:- Everything prior to 1992 (there must be a box I have missed ...) 1992 Vol 2 - No.s 1 to 7, 9, 11 & 12 (that box again ..... ) 1993 Vol 3 - No.s 2 (Feb), 4 (Mar), 6 (June) 1997 Vol 7 - No. 8 (Aug) 2000 Vol 10 - No.9 (Oct) I have everything else to 2016. If you have any of these, and could loan them to me, I would be grateful. Please PM me. The finished high resolution scan will be provided to RAA to be put up on their website. I am about to start a test run of one year, using various software etc. The RAA web developers suggested Abbyy Fine Reader, which is available as a free trial, one magazine per file, one year per folder. If you know of any better software to use with a Brother MFC-J65200W A3 scanner, speak now! The main outcome I am hoping for is a searchable pdf, preferably for the entire library of magazines. One search to find all mentions, including tags (where a photo is of 10-1234, but no caption). I envisage people will be able to search for "Scout" and have a link to all the photos, text & adverts from 1980's to 2011. Sue

This new organisation is going to be "more GA" than RAA. Until they disclose more I can only go on what they say on their Facebook page. The intention appears to be the lower end of GA, <1,500 or 7,500kg including helicopters with vague references to ultralights. I doubt they can register anything that CASA or RAA have declined to register. There is a niche market for the minimum aircraft category (mostly 95-10) and their pilots to re-form the old AUF and approach CASA for approval. There's about 200 95-10's left on the RAA register (that figure is out of date). I would suggest the easiest, cheapest way to do this is to not offer training (just recognise the RAA certificate and BFR), little technical (only accept aircraft already accepted on the RAA register), no magazine and all correspondence by electronic means (voting, info, payment), no pilot insurance and staffed by volunteers. The Ops manual can then limit usage to what they want to be restricted to - height, distance, etc.

The AUF (now RAA) aero club I was with had an old GA mustering pilot as instructor. He took his students through all the mustering, low level stuff in the club's Lightwing because most of them were country lads who would end up either mustering, fence & bore checking on the family property or would end up being pressured to do so by employers or mates. His thinking - better they had a brief lesson in what can go wrong, than try to learn "on the job", because even if he told them not to do it - they would. I did a refresher with him. My C152 did muster until CASA changed the rules - if you muster on a property, not your own, then you must have a CPL & mustering endo. So can't stray over the fence and muster Uncle's place too. The John Freeman "Flight at Lower Levels" books (at least 2 I have on the shelves - and Clear Prop has at least one volume) are well worth a read.

No Constitution will be entirely correct, even on its 100th iteration. A Flying Club I belong to adopted the Model Rules - a quorum (the minimum number of members necessary to have a valid meeting) was set at 'the Executive plus one". Over time they created 18 positions held by 6 people and then had to argue was that office titles?, or office bearers? 7 or 19? They offered cheaper rates to members, so people travelled in, joined, learnt and left. More than 75% never came to a meeting and the other 10% scrapped over whether any meetings (and resolutions) were valid. Another Club I was with had 28 (Twenty-Eight!) pages of transitional clauses from the 1986 to 1989 version of the 12 page constitution, with much contradiction and confusion between them. I re-wrote it to 5 pages and restricted changes to it at the AGM with a month's notice in writing. They too, did argue over "at least 21 days notice" to be interpreted as exactly 22 days and directed the Secretary to buy stamps on Friday but not to post until Saturday, but not before Sunday. Explains my grey hair. The old RAA constitution had many amendments put up, some succeeded, some didn't. This illustrates the power of the RAA Members to propose and also to dispose. The whole thing really needed a re-write. It got it, and the majority of the members who voted said it was a step in the right direction. It might not be right, it can be made right-er, but will never be Perfect. It's in; now up to Members to tweak it. Sue

Hi Gary, I remember a number of flying "padres" in Western Qld from my time at Longreach, Charleville, Winton, Boulia, Barcaldine areas 1980's - early 2000's. The Flying Nun, Outback Aerial Mission, the Salvation Army and some independent types. A real lifeline for many isolated people. One used my plane for a little while doing Birdsville Boulia area. I don't think I met you, but be assured we did appreciate the visits. Welcome aboard Sue

Welcome Chris, I also had a flying Dad, but didn't get my licence until after he died. Once that flying bug gets you, there is no turning back. Enjoy the forum and don't worry about the few who go on about being swamped by GA - they forget that before the AUF/RAA there was only GA. Bundaberg - have you been to Childers? There's a fly-in Breakfast 5 Nov if you are interested. Usually someone there most weekends and Wed morning is a bit of a fly-in smoko for guys from Bundy and surrounds. Do a Nav and bring some bun loaf or biscuits and we'll supply the mug & coffee. Sue

Kasper, You are talking about a different scenario. If the assets (eg building, computers) are being sold to settle the debts owed by RAA and some are bought by a private company, that is a different kettle of fish to the assets of RAA being offered to ELAAA. Consider this scenario - RAA is being wound up by the members as it is going broke (not yet insolvent), the building is sold for $1mil, $800k is used to settle all debts, then the remaining $200k is (under the constitution) given to another like minded Not for Profit, as decided by Members. ELAAA or Blogg's Architects or a private investor can purchase it, but they pay $1mil for it. It is not given to them.

Yenn, ELAAA might be saying RAA is the same as they are, but they are different animals. ELAAA is a Pty Ltd is a private company with shareholders and it has customers, RAA Ltd is a Not for Profit - limited liability Company with Members. The RAA constitution sets out the members' rights, and they are more than just voting in some Board members and copping whatever comes. The members have power over the Board and don't need to wait 4 years to vote them out. A Private Company is not required to tell you about their constitution or voting, finances or how they are running the business. They can choose what services to offer and leave the more difficult and expensive ones to someone else. It is there to make a Profit for their Shareholders.

ELAAA Pty Ltd cannot be granted the remains of RAA's assets. The RAA constitution is clear that it can only go to a like-minded Not for Profit, decided by the members:- "Winding up 63 Surplus assets not to be distributed to Members If the Company is wound up, any surplus assets must not be distributed to a Member or a former Member of the Company, unless that Member or former Member is a not-for-profit entity described in Clause 64.1. 64 Distribution of surplus assets 64.1 Subject to the Corporations Act and any other applicable Act, and any court order, any surplus assets that remain after the Company is wound up must be distributed to one or more not-for-profit entities: (a) with purpose(s) similar to, or inclusive of, the purpose(s) in Clause 6, and (b) which has governing documents which prohibit the entity from being carried on for the profit or gain of individual members, and which prohibit the distribution of any surplus assets to its Members to at least the same extent as the Company. 64.2 The decision as to the entity or entities to be given the surplus assets must be made by a special resolution of Members at or before the time of winding up. If the Members do not make this decision, the Company may apply to the Supreme Court to make this decision." ELAAA might pick up some business if RAA collapses but they won't be picking up their assets. Another Not for Profit could establish itself quickly before hand, pick up the ashes, and intellectual property (manuals etc) and get their approvals together in the future. However, I don't see RAA collapsing any time soon.

This is a valid issue to consider for pilots. If RAA decided to not offer a service to a segment of the recreation industry, maybe because it was complicated to do so, even though their 'charter' or agreements allowed them to offer that service, and they were a monopoly or duopoly; is there any remedy? With another player about to leap in the sand pit this may not be such an issue. If one, or both, refused to register or licence; is there anything that can be done? There are many examples - hypothetically - say ELAAA decide not to accept 95-10 registrations because that market segment is too small and difficult, but they are 25% of what RAA charges - could they be 'forced' to accept applications; or is price / cost not sufficient grounds to prove a denial of supply? If RAA declines to take a particular member, who cannot legally fly without being a member, is there any way around it, particularly if RAA was the only organisation that could offer that membership? I know there will be members who get asked to leave for disciplinary reasons connected with their unsafe flying, but here I am thinking of other issues - could be anything ... accusing the Board of cooking the books, a personality clash with the Grand Poohbah; all unconnected with flying and aircraft maintenance, but ending with the member expelled.

Hi Barrie, From the menu choose FORUMS - go to JUST LANDED - top right is POST NEW THREAD. Click on that and start writing. Sue

That is not true. Members can, and do, take action - think back to the Extraordinary Meeting in Canberra. They can put up resolutions to be voted on at meetings, and history shows the Board have not always got their way. They could have lost the "Constitution" vote and had to continue as an Incorporated body with the old, flawed, constitution, but it was the Members who had the say. The Board only had their own personal votes - 13 against 10,000. Members can put pressure on their Representatives to resign if they are not putting their interests first - that has happened. They must disclose their finances to the membership each year, if Directors are to be paid, the membership has to vote on it. People like me give the books a good going over for members to discuss and challenge if they want. What you state is more true of the new organisation (with the exception of voting). "You cannot not be involved with voting on policy, politics, documents, finances etc. They will only report to you not involve you in operational matters or strategic planning that affects every member." Insert "customer" for member. You don't expect, and can't have, a say in the running of a private company (for example) BP, you just rock up to the bowser and pay for the fuel. If BP decided not to supply AVGAS you can't force an extraordinary meeting or move a motion or lobby your elected BP board member. You have to live with it. In recreational aviation we have become used to dealing with Clubs (not for profit) - RAA, Aero Clubs, etc. A Private Company is a new experience.

Hey Flying Dog - we didn't get a notification because he did a Cut & Paste, rather than a "Quote" So far I have not been able to comment on anything other than what I know from their Facebook page (no web page and no promised announcement). By definition a Pty Ltd has less than 50 shareholders (owners) - they may only have 5 - and their business (constitution, voting, minutes, finance etc) is private. As a customer they don't need to consult you about Tech Manuals or who is being paid what (unless they chose to). KP and at least one other appeared to me to have an agenda with their comments which got me looking further - I don't go on Facebook - but this got me looking there. I was a little concerned about some of the language there about RAA as "the bad boy", and I know some personalities have axes to grind, so I sincerely hope we are not going to war. For people who think the new organisation is going to magically turn back the clock to an easier time of "do what ever you think is OK" or "just use common sense" - will find it's like ditching one sister for the other - you still have the same Mother-in-Law (CASA). I can bet there will be a robust Tech /Ops / Safety Manual and the private company can decide not to have difficult aircraft and people as customers. They can save money by not insuring customers or printing a magazine. They should be able to get on with the job because the Managing Directors are there by mutual agreement (they liked each other enough to form a company) whereas the members of RAA have voted in a disparate lot with a wide range of views and agendas. We will have to wait for the new kid on the block to announce what they are about. Sue

Hi Paul, Welcome to the forum! There's plenty to see & chat about. Check out the items in the menu - lots of people miss the fantastic amount of gear in there and only focus on the forums. If you look, there are tutorials, aviation apps etc that the younger ones might enjoy - decoding your weather, trip planning - learning and getting involved in flying. Sue