Barry Hendy

I absolutely agree. I have been flying a motor glider under GFA rules and it is great to be able to go soaring. You don't need to go anywhere to enjoy just flying - it can be great just spending an hour up in the mountains engine off. Local flights under power get boring, but it is always a challenge to find lift. It is like boat - in a motor boat you need somewhere to go - in a yacht you just go for a sail. I do some soaring with the motor idling - if you are a bit low and are worried about restarting - but engine off is much better. And cheaper. But you can only legally do that in a GFA aircraft.

If it is registered with RAA then you are not allowed to turn the motor off. Technically you can only soar in a GFA operated aircraft.

Hi Rob. By my reading - it appears RAA operations are not allowed to turn the engine off and soar - officially - so that really puts a damper on the idea. I believe there is some more investigation into this still going on though. I am currently flying under GFA operations progressing with a Motorglider endorsement and I hope independent ops. This seems like the only legal way to soar, and is not proving as challenging as some had predicted. (procedures wise anyway - getting the big, heavy, long-winged Dimona down is another matter!) Barry.

Thanks for the guidance Ardydublu. I have been investigating deeply the options and it is indeed a complex labyrinth of both technical and regulatory issues. While the Taurus is very attractive - I have concluded it does not suit my objectives mainly because of the engine configuration. The combination of 2-stroke, pop-up and the placement means the operation of it is very constrained. It really needs to thought of as a "self launching glider", i.e. the motor is not worth much more to you than a tug plane is at your airfield. It is great for a launch - but is an 'all or nothing' motor system. i.e. Full power or closed. It cannot be used for joining the circuit with other power planes for example. You cannot cruise or idle with it. Also, the pop-up configuration introduces a lot of drag, so with it up you start coming down fast. Combine this with the reputation of 2 strokes as not being that reliable, and your ops need to consider going for an engine start with around 3,000 ft to go, allowing for a failed start procedure and still having enough height for a safe glider outlanding. None of this meets my needs. If I lived on a farm in central NSW it would be great - but not for operating out of a local RAA/GA airfield like Lilydale. I then turned my attention to the Sinus - the same wings as the Taurus on a conventional fuselage with a 4-stroke Rotax out front. Not as attractive, and not as good gliding performance, but a pretty capable glider and all the operational flexibility of the Rotax. As I tried to sort all the mixed messages about soaring and the regulations, I went to the source and asked the RAA on their position on engine off operations of an RAA aircraft - and the answer was pretty definitive; you are not allowed to turn the motor off in an RAA registered/operated aircraft (The only exception is an instructor demonstrating specific emergency procedures.) So if I want to go soaring in a Sinus (or any other LSA style aircraft) I must register it with GFA and operate fully under their procedures. So that is my next step; what exactly does it take to get GFA endorsed in a motor glider and get independent ops status? I am heading down that path now .....

Thanks Exadios. I did get my silver C about 30 years ago! Do they tarnish? No doubt I do need significant refreshing though. I am underway with my RAA license (cannot hurt!) but it does sound like operating under a GFA independent operator status is worth while. Go flying in wave ... yes: That is definitely on my objectives list!

I thought not .... If you just want a single quick launch it looks OK, but I want some travel distance - to get out from under controlled airspace (e.g. from Lilydale down to Gippsland or up to Benalla) before soaring - then getting home at the end of the day. The Taurus is not a touring aircraft, but the fuel version (with the extra tank) gives some good flexibility while the electric version gives you a climb to a few thousand feet - but that is about all off one charge. I don't imagine much engine-on time so in the scheme of things the cost of fuel and maintenance is low compared to the benefits. Sorry but the 'feel good' factor of a free launch is outweighed by the cost/life of Li batteries and the limitations (to me ....) of electric (I should add I am also jaded as I worked 4 years in the solar game ... but that is another story.) Having said that - the simplicity, silence and innovation is very impressive by the look of it.

I agree with Kaz above that regardless I should do some refresher training in gliders, but RAA cannot spin, but could a GFA instructor take me in a (my) RAA reg aircraft (glider) and do spin training - or do I have to hop into a GFA aircraft? Thank you Exadios for the info on "independent operators" - this certainly clarifies the option to go with GFA. Can anyone clarify the issues associated with high-altitude wave flying? It is certainly above the limits of RAA ops, but GFA are allowed up there are they? Under what conditions? and once again - is GFA both GFA certified pilot AND GFA registered aircraft? But the 8000ft RAA height limit will be frustrating. But back to the core question of which category to operate under and the limits of each: I am even more confused now. Both GFA - independent operator and RAA licensed seem a viable option - each with some limits. Which is the best way to base myself?

When you arrive at a new field - don't you requie a designated CFI to be 'in charge' of ops? And aren't the motor gliders at your field under the CFI. I thought this structure did not support an 'independent' motor glider operator under GFA rules as an effective one-man-show. (this is not based on any intimate knowledge of the GFA regs I must admit!)

Those Toqumwall hangers were amazing - I used to fly out of there. Huge things - some just being used for grain. I went past the area last year and was sad to see them all gone - they must have been unsafe I guess?

Thanks for all the comments. It is this mix between GFA and RAA that is the source of my questions; I believe the RAA/LSA regs make provision for gliders - for example they can have retracting undercarriage. I also understand the 'engine off' rules are relaxed for a glider. (Can't find that one though?) If I operated under GFA then I think there would be constraints about operations - e.g. I am not sure I can just arrive at a local field, rig and go - can I? And the cross country-by-motor one is interesting. Once again, RAA allows this - although the Taurus is not a touring aircraft so my interest is a return-to-home after a days flying concept. Price wise it is pretty attractive (are we allowed to quote prices here?) - full optioned plus an enclosed trailer is around $140K-$150K depending on exchange rates (EUR) Not cheap - but not in the same league as the 'classic' self launch gliders or Stemme. It is quoted as a 15 minute or so process to rig from trailer to the air, so I don't see the need for hangar and you are more flexible to take it away places. I would definitely be inteterested in a Melbourne-Eastern syndicate ... $150K is a lot for a toy!! a price included in a conversation is fine Barry. links to a price list is viewed with suspicion - Mod ;)

I am contemplating getting a Pipstrel Taurus; a 2 seat self-launch motor glider, but want to be sure I fully understand all the operational and regulatory issues. First - some background: I did a fair bit of gliding in my late-teen/ university days thanks to an early introduction to gliding from my father - then use of his Grob Astir CS at Toqumwal. Having not flown much in between, I would now (some 30 years later) like to get back into gliding/flying and the idea of a motor glider seems great way to go. The idea of rigging and self launching from any RA airfiled and spending a day soaring is very attractive. The Taurus looks like very good fun. It appears RAA registration and an RAA license is the best option (I have started getting my license) - operational freedom mainly. But I suppose I would also get actively involved in GFA activity? Are there any issues with an RAA aircraft intermixing with GFA operations at an airfield for example? I live in Melbourne so would be looking for soaring sites reachable from say Lilydale - thinking mountain/slope in northern Gippsland, mountain flying over the high-country and soaring north of the mountains. Since there are no Taurus in the country, it is a little hard to judge exactly how it all works. I would be interested in any views on operations of a motor glider like this as an RAA aircraft but operating as a glider mainly, any thoughts on the Taurus etc. Barry