And for all the plastic fantastic pilots out there that will scream ,,,OH but they are so unsafe etc,well personally when my engine fails ,[because it is not if ,it IS when be it the latest fantastic plastic or a little loehle ]i ,d much prefer a stall speed under 30 knots and a weight that if i go into trees i,m more and likely to be stuck up in the branches and have to climb down , where as plastic fantastic hitting trees at 60 kts will penetrate and smash into trunks etc or explode into flames ,,NO thanks Also if you look at historic records Yes there was a lot of outlandings, in fact you where trained to do them, and the death rate per accidents is way lower then todays parrot brigades. The records show that your chances of surviving and outlanding back then where far better then the same scenario today as the planes are heavier faster and beside jabiru,s most are low wing with a very high chance of a turnover in an outlanding and subsequent entrapment here are some examples, i know which one i,d rather be in ...lol....................