Vorticity

I am sure that a Savannah builder will confirm regarding the cleco size (probably size 30). I bought 100 through wicks and 100 through Avery in the two main sizes that I use. The Avery ones are a bit smoother and were on a good special. There will be a few other things you may need so try and group it into 1 order. You can buy clecos locally but it was cheaper to import.

If you do a search for the U.S Savannah distributor they have a great blow by blow photo journal. It really is amazing how quick they go together. I hear the price is back down with the dollar performing, good choice and timing!

What would be expensive about owning a T85 thruster? The initial outlay is low, the 503s run forever with minimal maint and at $7k do you really need insurance? There are some tricks with maintaining them so you need an experienced friend to watch over you for a while. My first aircraft was an old 503 drifter. It took up lots of my time but little of my money as it was hangered on a farm. I learnt a heap about ownership, got some hours up and then broke even for the major costs when I sold it. That said, I'd give it 1 year after having your nav endorsment. Have some mney saved up do that you can fly a lot. You may find that with weather, work and family you are flat out doing 35 hrs a year. As a student pilot I would have scoffed at this! If you fly less than 50hrs a year it is difficult for ownership to be cost effective. The next thing to do is honestly look at what you do. If your habit is to go for a 1hr mooch around low late of an afternoon than a rag and tube would be perfect, if you are hitting the navs than maybe not. Be careful with some of the prices being thrown around for kits. A sonex airframe kit landed in oz will be $22-$30 depending on options and exchange rate. That is without an engine or avionics.

Oh, please accept my deepest apologies.

I am surprised how expensive flying RAAus is becoming. I have tried to collect some info to compare between the 80s, 90s and now. My thought was to use the data for average wage to compare the price of aircraft and hourly rates. If anyone can recall this info please let me know and I will do a comparison. In the 90s two basic trainers where the thruster (around $20,000 new?) and the skyfox ($45,000 new?). Compare that with the new bread coming in around the $150,000.. You cannot expect that this increased cost will not be passed along to the student/hire. Dual hours where around $75-$90/hr in the skyfox,compare that to $256/hr currently charged for dual instruction in a tecnam eaglett at Redcliffe. Will all the advances and expensive aircraft price RAAus out of contention as an affordable option? Is there still a market for training in lower end aircraft (drifters, bantams etc) so that people can buy an affordable 50kt beast to enjoy flying? In my short 15 year being interested in ultralights I have noticed the almost extinction of the wheeler scouts etc that where once common place. In 15 years will it be a novalty to see a drifter or bantam at natfly?

I reckon if you found a school that turns over a 912S each year and then fitted it out with a basic instrument pack than you would have a bargain.

I would say it depends if you are being productive or not. I can think of an occasin in casino when I was holding short of the active runway waiting for the local schools gazell doing circuits. I took no offence when I was told 'tecnam, feel free to jump on before us, we'll go long' . I see it to be just as rude of aircraft in the circuit not to let someone in over and over again as if that aircraft just pushed onto the center line. We all have to share the same airspace. I have had people pull out while I'm in final. I would doubt anyone would be so rude as to do this on purpose, a quick going around call and full throttle keeping them in view isn't a huge deal. Earlier post are right, 'councelling' an incinsiderate pilot should wait until you are back on the ground.

I reckon the onex with a 2200 would be a winner! I'll just let a few rack up some time and prove the folding wing mechanism first though.... As far as quick build goes...mmm..if you have seen a savannah go together, you wouldnt call the sonex quick build. It is a very complete kit though and the plans/tech support are brilliant. Anyway, I should be back in the workshop measuring, marking, cutting, drilling and deburing my way through the sonex ailerons:loopy:

Tomo, if this thing reaches you than we in Brisbane are screwed!:yuk:

If you are a student and you want one authoritive answer......let me think.....there used to be someone I went to...... could it be my CFI? Do we already have a medium for the exact thing this 'new' forum is created for? or does that take away the oppurtunity for a small group of elitist members to block all those pesky poster out who may have differnt opinions to them? If there is a group that wants to be the final word than put your bio out there. Otherwise you are still as annonymous as anyone else and your opinion should be taken with the same caution until confirmed by a students instructor. For authoritive, personlised flying instruction see your CFI. To readily exchange ideas, opinions and rumours; hit the internet.

Yep, my 503WB did that but only at a very defined Attitude on climb out. It scared me so I rang wayne fisher, he said most drifters will have one position at which turbulant air flows across the tailplane. I would simply avoid this by adjusting my climb out. Both my drifter and fisher would get the odd strange vibration, mainly noticable after a long time on the ground when I was a bit nervous, never really pinned down if it was me or the drifter. Maybe the drifter was scared because it was over 1500ft?? They each have personality you realise?

Huh? You obviously don't live near Townsville, Darwin, oakey or Brisbane because you would see these birds flying at various daily. Jump on janes and compare the NH90 to the fully optioned blackhawks (the nh90 has most options standard) and you will findit has more power, range and space. No chopper is good at everything but these two are pretty slick machines!

The visit is a continuation in the battle betwee n Sikorsky and the Europeans to replace the cancelled seasprite. Even the US president flies in a European chopper now, or will do very soon.

I can understand how sensitive builders of this type are when so much bad info is clouding the little real information that is available. The amount of time and moneywe all put into these homebuilts means that we become very committed to our design. Realize though why there is so much interest in this matter. Structural failure would have to be the biggest fear of any pilot. I don't think anyone has been slandering the design. Fact is they have failed. The fact that experts dont know why and the designer is confident in the design doesn't do away with these in service failures. I hope the mods prove succesfull and that they don't slow you down to much. I don't mind the zenith, seems a bit like a sonex that has been hitting the carbs hard over Christmas.

Oi! you forgot about my sonex kit sitting in the corner of the hanger, yes it is still in the larvae stage but it is still an aircraft:laugh: Sounds like a great strip, let me know and I will hire a tecnam or even scum a ride in one of the Jabs or the KR2S.

Good advice. A scotchbrite wheel for US$55, thats a bargain! :big_grin:

I hope that one day my sonex grows up to become an RV8:clap: Maybe Vans could put some gear in the box for you, worth a try.

I have just been through the process of buying tools to build my sonex kit. I ordered some tools from Wicks along with hardware and had them placed in the box by the guys at sonex to save shipping. At the time I went through the list of tools and only ordered a small amount as I was 'sure' i'd be able to get the rest of the tools in Australia..... After much frustration I took the advice of some other builders and just ordered the rest of the tools from the US. I found Averey in Texas had good prices, they had some great specials over christmas. I asked for the most economical shipping as I knew I was having a break over christmas. The shipping was pretty cheap and with the dollar doing ok it wasnt a big deal. Just make sure they dont use UPS priority internatinal or something like sonex just did to me on an order of some polish and a DVD...cost more to ship than the big bunch of tools I ordered from Avery:angry: I tried to buy a few things through distributors here and they where just taking the XXXX. Items would be near double the price of Aircraft Spruce in the US and then they wanted to still charge me $10 in shipping! One item I was in a hurry for was a scotchbrite wheel. I sourced one through Blackwoods for AU$150.... I just bought a second one through Avery for US$80. Clecos where another classic where the local supplier was AU$1.50 each while Averey where 65 US cents. You'll need a couple of hundred so it adds up. This was an item I could at least source here. I also found some suppliers with flash websites who would not reply to emails. The other mistake I made was thinking I could get by without certain tools. After a while I figured that it would lead to mistakes and a less enjoyable build. Given that the sonex will cost $50k+ to get in the air I figured why skimp a couple of hundred dollars? A few items that I had trouble with from memory where: edge marking blocks rivet spacing tool drills in 30, 40 etc (6 inch and 12 inch as well) speed deburing tools (for holes) This is just my experience, good luck in your preperations. Ian, a starting point maybe the tool lists for the sonex, RV12 and Zenith kits. There would be a fair few common tools that are not expensive but you cannot get in Australia, and shipping would cost as much as the item.

Does anyone out there have a large building table that they are finished with? I'll be moving to a more suitable house next week where I can set up properly and start building bigger parts of my sonex. The first job is to build an 8x4 foot table with a lip around the edges to allow for clamping. Sonex advise to use 2x4 for all horizontals and 3/4 inch ply for the top. I have a design worked out so that I can pull it apart and move/get rid of it at the end of next year when the fuse/wings etc are finished. In planning for disposal of my table it made me think that maybe there is someone out there in SEQLD with a table sitting idle that they may be willing to sell. If you are in such a situation could you please contact me?

If you want to read some angry posts, log onto a US Zenair owners forum... There has been a list of modifications released for the design. The designer still openly dissagrees with it all and is sticking by his original design. But anyway, back to the US forums. Many people who swayed more to the pilot side than the builder side had been drawn in by the quick build kit. Unfortunatly the modifications required are quite extensive with some builders quoting that the mods will take longer to incorporate than what it took to build their quick build kit. Poor buggers..... I can only imagine how heart broken I would be if I where in that situation. From my understanding there have been a number of quick build kits sold in Australia. Can anyone here comment on what mods are occuring and how they will be approaching it?

You can go online to the lycoming thunderbolt site and get an instant quote. I was quite surprised at the cost in comparison to the 912, and this was for a very high performance variant. As for running cost, everytime I have ordered parts from rotax i have a lingering feeling that someone has ravaged my bank account! Any comments on comparable items between the 912/lycoming/contenental etc?

Yeah, I have looked at that one. It actually has a great summary of the creation of lift, the best I've seen actually. You can go crazy with all the theory but unless you are designing a new wing it a case of so what. Without the correct context and an unhealthy love for maths it can become a blur of equations. I found that stick and rudder talked in terms of the pilot and no equations; bonus!:thumb_up: everyone has to find what works for them. I think the aerodynamics course on the US AOPA site was a ripper.

I picked up a copy a while back. It is slow in places and the language is not what you find in magazines or blogs, it was also written in a completely different era. I liked that it related everything to actuall control inputs rather than lift/drag diagrams etc. It can't hurt to have a read and enjoy a book about aviation from when B-17s where the cutting edge. If you want to play aerspace engineer than go get any of the text books authored by Anderson and get ready for some maths and some heavy theory!

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed by the exam. I was fortunate to be put onto a HF course conducted for proffessional pilots. It was brilliant! Unfortunatly it was only a refresher so I have always been keeping an eye out for the full course and a willing sponsor:laugh: The instructors where ex military and now flew the helicopters for inspecting powerlines from the air. The content included decision making, crew resource managment, perception all sorts of 'in the cockpit' topics that where relevant to flying. Have many of these 'human factors' deaths that triggered this training (and I do belive in it as a worthwhile concept) involved the pilots unhealthy diet or leaving their aircraft after a forced landing in a hot climate?? Lets hope that this has been a first attempt and that it will become more relevant as time goes on.